New high-speed rail plan unveiled.

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Originally Posted by UKIP

I have to say, at least Adolf Hitler actually won an election, whereas the EU has lost all referendums concerning reformal and refuses to give nations a say on whether or not they even want the European Union.

Oh you're totally right, telling us what light bulbs we can use and how many millimetres wide our apples can be has made the world of difference, and has no doubt averted World War III.

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okay, it's already been established that you don't understand what a democracy is, so let's not talk about how the people in government are meant to represent the people and they are meant to vote in how their constituency want them to. Because essentially, that's how it's meant to work.

Let's go through what the EU has achieved:

- A stable Europe with relatively good economic growth
- Free movement of goods, services, labour and capital.
- Schengen Agreement (ie, no passports through internal borders)
- Common documents to make it easier for those abroad to claim on health care and to drive
- Human Rights Laws
- A common market with common rules on goods to make it easier for firms to sell goods.
- Collective agreements on some foreign policy (ie with Iran, Georgian Crisis, Zimbabwe) to enact economic sanctions which carry alot of weight.
- Better University co-operation (EURAMAS (sp?) exchange programs), EU citizens pay roughly the same rate for university abroad.
- Joint-Research combining the best expertise from around europe in scientific and other fields
- Funding thousands and thousands of projects around europe which may be overlooked by national governments
- European Court
- External Trade deals
- Loans to small businesses
- Protection of local cultures and languages
- enviromental protection
- Humanitarian aid
- europol

and alloootttttttttttttttttttttttt more.

Jordy, the EU commission has asked Italy to obey human rights laws regarding the discrimination of Roma in Italy, Italy is corrupt, but it isn't up to the rest of the EU to run member states themselves, they have their own sovereignty.

viva europe.

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

okay, it's already been established that you don't understand what a democracy is, so let's not talk about how the people in government are meant to represent the people and they are meant to vote in how their constituency want them to. Because essentially, that's how it's meant to work.

Let's go through what the EU has achieved:

- A stable Europe with relatively good economic growth
- Free movement of goods, services, labour and capital.
- Schengen Agreement (ie, no passports through internal borders)
- Common documents to make it easier for those abroad to claim on health care and to drive
- Human Rights Laws
- A common market with common rules on goods to make it easier for firms to sell goods.
- Collective agreements on some foreign policy (ie with Iran, Georgian Crisis, Zimbabwe) to enact economic sanctions which carry alot of weight.
- Better University co-operation (EURAMAS (sp?) exchange programs), EU citizens pay roughly the same rate for university abroad.
- Joint-Research combining the best expertise from around europe in scientific and other fields
- Funding thousands and thousands of projects around europe which may be overlooked by national governments
- European Court
- External Trade deals
- Loans to small businesses
- Protection of local cultures and languages
- enviromental protection
- Humanitarian aid
- europol

and alloootttttttttttttttttttttttt more.

Jordy, the EU commission has asked Italy to obey human rights laws regarding the discrimination of Roma in Italy, Italy is corrupt, but it isn't up to the rest of the EU to run member states themselves, they have their own sovereignty.

viva europe.

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No, you don't understand what democracy is. How is it democracy when the European Union is making the Republic of Ireland vote yet again, despite it saying no and other governments around Europe refuse to give their people a referendum on it. You do not understand democracy, nor appreciate it.

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- A stable Europe with relatively good economic growth

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This was achieved by NATO and the aftermath of World War II onto the Cold War. Italy is unstable to this day with governments collapsing all the time, along with half of Europe being under the thumb of the Soviet Union for decades, with only NATO standing in the way.

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- Free movement of goods, services, labour and capital.

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The movement of goods has been going on for thousands of years, long before the European Union was even thought of by the corrupt left wingers in Europe. Have you not heard of individual trade agreements?

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- Schengen Agreement (ie, no passports through internal borders)

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Why is having no sovereign control over our own borders a good thing (especially with criminals and terrorism being so rampant across Europe), have you totally lost the plot?

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- Common documents to make it easier for those abroad to claim on health care and to drive

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This isn't worth the billions we pay the European Union every year.

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- Human Rights Laws

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These laws were not made or formed by the government of the United Kingdom, just like the laws across the USSR were made back in Russia. This, again, is not worth billions every year when we could quite easily do this ourselves. The Human Rights act is only their to serve criminals so they can have a nice time, but then again, the left have only ever cared about the criminals/minorities.

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- Collective agreements on some foreign policy (ie with Iran, Georgian

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Iran and Georgia were not solved anyway, therefore no results yet again from the European Union... more to the point, this overrules national sovereignty yet again.

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- Better University co-operation (EURAMAS (sp?) exchange programs), EU citizens pay roughly the same rate for university abroad.

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This (again) is not worth billions of taxpayer money every year.

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- Joint-Research combining the best expertise from around europe in scientific and other fields

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Co-operation in science occurs all the time, regardless of the European Union being around or not.

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- Funding thousands and thousands of projects around europe which may be overlooked by national governments

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You mean things such as useless art projects, you also can't call it funding because its our money which they are using on all of Europe and some of it on us, which means our government is surrending sovereign rights over taxpayer money to pay for the rest of Europe while the United Kingdoms roads crumble, infastructure ages, nuclear power plants come to the end of their lives and military is strapped for cash.

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- European Court

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This court has no place in the sovereign state of the United Kingdom and should have no place over sovereign courts, the EU may say it doesn't want a superstate but this is just yet another example that is does want it and it will force it down on us.

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- External Trade deals

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We have been trading for thousands of years without the European Union, if anything it hinders the process because it means the interests of the United Kingdom are being severed incase of conflict of interests with other European nations.

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- Loans to small businesses

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The European Union has forced regulation after regulation on small business throughout its existance and like the rest of the United Kingdom and Europe, the European Union is not welcome.

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- Protection of local cultures and languages

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How is the formation of a European superstate protecting culture and language? - infact as the European Union uses English a lot, its contributing to the spread of English as the world language.

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- enviromental protection

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..have governments across the world suddenly lost the ability to protect enviroment? - or has the EU been protecting us all along with its poisenous light bulbs its forcing us all to use?

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- Humanitarian aid

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The European Union is not needed for this, just like the United States, Peoples Republic of China (the rest of the world) can give aid as sovereign countries.

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- europol

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You mean the new KGB/SS?

Italy has a right, as a sovereign country to evict gypsies (as we should be doing) who rob from the water mains, degenerate an area and are criminals. Italy hasn't suddenly taken action against them for no reason.

..as I said at the start of this, the European Union has solved nothing and I still can't see the World War the European Union has apparently stopped? - oh wait, that was NATO.

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Originally Posted by TheWolf

Why do you have to turn everything into a debate? leading onto an argument?

Anyway, IDC lmao, going bed, ciao.

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Debates and arguments are not against the forums rules and never will be. :) Look up the definition of argument, you'll realise that the word argument has two meanings, one which isn't entirely true and the other being true.

An argument is basically what structures a debate - a fact or opinion put forward to counter another already existing argument. UKIP argues (puts forward an argument) that the EU is useless, while alexxxxx puts forth a counter-argument saying it is useful. That's what an argument is, not what people seem to irritatingly believe are two members swearing at each other for the sake of nothing.

Tis a common mis-conception that an argument is a game of verbal fisticuffs when really it's just an opinion or fact being chucked around, to win a debate :P

It won't be ready by that time and the rolling stock used will be awful.

I agree, it'll almost definately be delayed by another 5-10 years or something ridiculous.

Good really. I dont really have no need to go to Glasgo though and there is high-speed rail links from where I live (Ebbsfleet) to london in like 15mins, and the same way to paris :P

In the mean time, they could allow current HST stock to run up to 135 and some places 140mph.

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Originally Posted by You

In the mean time, they could allow current HST stock to run up to 135 and some places 140mph.

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In the mean team they will probably also expand every major airport in the UK, most notably probably the West Midlands airports and most of the London airports.

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Originally Posted by TheWolf

In the mean team they will probably also expand every major airport in the UK, most notably probably the West Midlands airports and most of the London airports.

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You're right. They're just wasting money.

It isn't wasting money, all these things need to be expanded, the population has got bigger, it is getting bigger, peoples needs to go abroad is getting bigger, numbers travelling to the UK for holidays(god knows why)/for business meetings/trips, ect, are getting bigger.

Over all, our needs on these services (trains, planes, motorways) - are getting bigger, so in turn, they must get bigger, which they need to.