EU Elections

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15-05-2009, 04:04 PM
alexxxxx

EU Elections

European Elections 2009

http://superpanoramas.com/eu/images/...g%20Bkgnd2.jpg

On June 4th, European Union States will go to vote on their representatives in the European Parliament in Strasbourg. These are the representatives of the people of Europe in the EU. Seats are handed out proportionately to the amount of votes for that particular party, ie, no vote is wasted.

Go to:
http://europa.eu/
to learn more about the EU

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...ogo_bbc226.jpg

The labour party are becoming more and more unpopular in the UK at this moment in time and are predicted to lose shares of the vote by many analyists. This unpopularity lies within the 'faults' of the last few years such as widespread opposition to the wars in the middle-east, MPs expenses, incurrance of billions of pounds worth of debt and a long list of others.

http://blogs.manchestereveningnews.c.../tory_tree.jpg

The conservatives are growing in popularity in the UK because of many 'swing-voters' changing because they are becoming dissilusioned and isolated from the Labour Party. They are expected to win the next general election and are expected to make some gains upon the labour party in the EU elections. They have grown in popularity since David Cameron has taken charge and tried to change the views of the conservatives to include more of the ordinary men and women on the street rather than the cliché upper-middle and upper-class population. The tories however have been hit, along with labour and libdems with accusations of misusing the expenses system.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ZmiAkQ5OGi...0/Lib+Dems.jpg
The third most popular party in the UK are the libdems. They are strongly opposed to the DNA databases, ID Cards and other measures being used to chip away our civil rights. The Lib Dems are very pro-EU. Some of their MPs have been caught up in the latest expenses scandle.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../Ukip_logo.png
The UK Independance party (known as UKIP) are against the EU and would like to see britain pull out of the common market and political union. It believes the money we spend in joining the union outways the benefits and would like to see us pull out of the EU. UKIP have been elected before for some seats. They are non-racist and non-facsist, but have been seen in an unpopular light when Robert Kilroy Silk, who was elected, has taken the parliamentary wage, but rarely ever went to the parliament in Strasbourg. He was on 'I'm a celebrity, get me out of here!' whilst the european parliament was in session.

http://www.wvwnews.net/images/teaser...go_letters.gif
The British National Party are a party who were formed by some members of the facsist/racist National Front, with some of the same principals carried through. They are against the EU and their ultimate aim would be to remove immigrants by paying them large sums of money to leave, and their children from the UK. Only white people can join the BNP and they claim that anyone who isn't white a 'racial-foreigner' even if they are british and are born in the UK. Some people have likened them to the Nazis and Nick Griffin denies the holocaust. They are liked by some because they are strong on immigration (legal and illegal), local communities and British Jobs for British Workers.

http://www.columbia.edu/%7Esbl2104/S...en%20party.jpg
The Green Party (or the Greens) focus their main attention to environmental issues such as climate change though do have policies (generally quite left-wing) about social issues and aim to create jobs through environmental investment.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...as-eu_Logo.png
Libertas are a pro-EU party, but who would like to see the current system changed completely to a more democratic system. Libertas are also a pan-EU party with people standing for seats in different countries. They oppose the Lisbon Treaty and oppose many ways in which the EU work.

There are many independant people standing for election in these elections too, these are just seen as some of the more popular parties.

Who would you like to see elected to the EU Parliament? and if you are eligible, who are you voting for?

Please stay on topic if possible.
19-05-2009, 09:28 AM
Bun

that picture is missing romania and bulgaria :P. these eu elections are going to be a taster of next years general election i think.
19-05-2009, 03:41 PM
UKIP

Oh wow, when I made my thread I didn't even know this thread existed, they are both nearly the same in looks and layout aswell, i'm scared. :O

On the European Union i'm for United Kingdom Independance Party, secondly Conservative and thirdly BNP although I don't agree with the socialist policies of the BNP, I think having them in the parliament along with UKIP and the Conservatives will perhaps defend us more.

The parliament is just a cover anyway, the European Courts and Commission are the ones who hold the real power and can overrule a national government if they wish. That isn't democracy thats a dictatorship.

The only difference between the former SU and the EU are that the SU managed to form a political union faster under force, whereas the EU are doing it via the backdoor where ministers like the Labour minister for the EU hadn't even read the treaty herself yet her party has the cheek to tell us, the people of the United Kingdom that we aren't educated enough on the EU and Lisbon Treaty.
19-05-2009, 04:08 PM
clueless

even the logo of the BNP makes me feel sick
19-05-2009, 04:16 PM
UKIP

Quote:

Originally Posted by clueless

even the logo of the BNP makes me feel sick

What is wrong with being patriotic?
I don't agree with all their policies but they have a lot of it right, EU, crime and some parts of its immigration policy.
19-05-2009, 04:21 PM
clueless

there is a difference between being patriotic and being racist. they might have a few right policies but they are far from the full package
19-05-2009, 05:36 PM
UKIP

Saying no to immigration is not racist, some aspects of the party may be racist or considered extreme but if you ask people on the streets its what most agree with.
19-05-2009, 05:37 PM
clueless

saying only white people can join the bnp is racist lol.
20-05-2009, 01:02 PM
alexxxxx

The BNP are probably the worst people you could ever want in power.

They deny the holocaust, they want to use our tax money to pay our own citizens to move to other countries because of their skin colour. They deny that black or asians or mixed racial people can ever be British.

So many things I hate about the BNP. They just spread hate throughout the country. Nick Griffin even said that he felt sorry for mixed race people because they are 'a direct product of multiculturalism.'

And I won't count as british in this country cause my Grandad is foreign...

I'd have to disagree that many people like their ideas.
20-05-2009, 01:07 PM
Immenseman

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

Saying no to immigration is not racist, some aspects of the party may be racist or considered extreme but if you ask people on the streets its what most agree with.

That's wrong, if you were give them a detailed analysis of exactly what policies the BNP wanted to implement and what they stood for I doubt they would have very much support whatsoever. I have no idea how you managed to find that the majority of people agree with BNP ideas because they most certainly do not.
20-05-2009, 01:43 PM
Dan2nd

Quote:

Originally Posted by clueless

there is a difference between being patriotic and being racist. they might have a few right policies but they are far from the full package

Don't get me wrong but how did you even get onto the racist subject? You said their logo makes you feel sick and then decided to defend your views by bringing up the racist card... their logo is in no way racist to me it just looks like the letters BNP with the union jack flag patterned within the letters... if thats racist I'd hate to hear what you have to say about my car since that has a union jack on the roof as I'm very patriotic.

I'd personally hate to see the BNP get into power within the EU or the UK I think that would be the next step towards the government becoming a 'Hitler' like regime, but at the same time would like a party in there who'd stand up for Britain and not just role over.
20-05-2009, 03:03 PM
UKIP

Quote:

Originally Posted by clueless

saying only white people can join the bnp is racist lol.

I'm sure that isn't their policy, find it is and your right but from what I have read on their website, it doesn't mention that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexxxxx

The BNP are probably the worst people you could ever want in power.

They deny the holocaust, they want to use our tax money to pay our own citizens to move to other countries because of their skin colour. They deny that black or asians or mixed racial people can ever be British.

So many things I hate about the BNP. They just spread hate throughout the country. Nick Griffin even said that he felt sorry for mixed race people because they are 'a direct product of multiculturalism.'

And I won't count as british in this country cause my Grandad is foreign...

I'd have to disagree that many people like their ideas.

Denying the holocaust, i'm afraid that is an opinion just like I could deny 9/11 was an act of terrorism and so forth. I believe it happend of course, but trying to send people to jail for not believing in the holocaust is, as per usual, us being at Israels feet while they commit terrible crimes against the Palestinians. Freedom of speech to deny whatever you want, that is democracy.

As for the British issue, well I am sort of in agreement with them, but I am unsure myself where to draw the line. If I went and moved to China, would you call me Chinese? - you wouldn't and I believe the same applies here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immenseman

That's wrong, if you were give them a detailed analysis of exactly what policies the BNP wanted to implement and what they stood for I doubt they would have very much support whatsoever. I have no idea how you managed to find that the majority of people agree with BNP ideas because they most certainly do not.

Actually tightend immigration, the EU and crime are the BNP's strong points and many agree with them. If you ask someone should our borders be closed, the likelyhood is that they will say yes. If you ask someone should we leave the EU the likelyhood is that they will say yes. If you ask someone should murderers be executed, the likelyhood is that people will agree with it.

As I have said before, i'm not a suppoter of the BNP as I believe some of the party is indeed racist and I don't agree with a lot of their policies, particulary re-nationalisation which would cripple our economy. However a lot of people agree with them out there and if the main parties don't start getting back to the issues that people want to discuss/change then support for the BNP will grow from disappointed Labour supporters.

As for Dans comment I totally agree, the BNP logo isn't racist at all. I also agree so strongly on your comment of 'we need a government that just won't roll over.'
20-05-2009, 03:08 PM
Immenseman

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

Actually tightend immigration, the EU and crime are the BNP's strong points and many agree with them. If you ask someone should our borders be closed, the likelyhood is that they will say yes. If you ask someone should we leave the EU the likelyhood is that they will say yes. If you ask someone should murderers be executed, the likelyhood is that people will agree with it.

I'd like to know where you got that from too. Sure, some people would agree with it. However, I'm pretty sure you'd find the majority don't agree with the death penalty to be re-introduced.
20-05-2009, 03:12 PM
UKIP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immenseman

I'd like to know where you got that from too. Sure, some people would agree with it. However, I'm pretty sure you'd find the majority don't agree with the death penalty to be re-introduced.

Basically from the people I know/have heard speak on the subject, my family believe that if someone takes someone elses life then they forfeit their own. I have heard family friends talk about it, even people who we hardly speak to. Also in my english class out of about 25 students, i'd say only 3 disagreed with it, and we'd gone through the whole 'what if innocents were executed' etc.

If someone murdered a friend/family members of mine, you could count on it i'd want them to face justice, at least life in prison or preferrabley the death penalty, both of which don't happen anymore as we seem to care more for the criminals rights rather than the victims.
20-05-2009, 04:30 PM
alexxxxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

Denying the holocaust, i'm afraid that is an opinion just like I could deny 9/11 was an act of terrorism and so forth. I believe it happend of course, but trying to send people to jail for not believing in the holocaust is, as per usual, us being at Israels feet while they commit terrible crimes against the Palestinians. Freedom of speech to deny whatever you want, that is democracy.

As for the British issue, well I am sort of in agreement with them, but I am unsure myself where to draw the line. If I went and moved to China, would you call me Chinese? - you wouldn't and I believe the same applies here.

No, I wouldn't call myself chinese, but i'd call my children chinese if they were born there. If I moved to south africa, my children would be south african, if i moved to Brazil they would be brazillian. Calling a Black person who's parents were born here (or not even) a racial foreigner is a form of discrimination. That kind of thinking was behind the Nuremberg laws.

There are aload of other things the BNP have said/done.

And only white people are permitted in the BNP. It's a rule.
20-05-2009, 04:55 PM
UKIP

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexxxxx

No, I wouldn't call myself chinese, but i'd call my children chinese if they were born there. If I moved to south africa, my children would be south african, if i moved to Brazil they would be brazillian. Calling a Black person who's parents were born here (or not even) a racial foreigner is a form of discrimination. That kind of thinking was behind the Nuremberg laws.

There are aload of other things the BNP have said/done.

And only white people are permitted in the BNP. It's a rule.

There you go then, my point exactly. The children are I believe of that country, but not entirely that nationality. As I said before, I don't agree with all of their policy, just the basics of it.

Apparently it is not officially a rule.
20-05-2009, 05:10 PM
alexxxxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

There you go then, my point exactly. The children are I believe of that country, but not entirely that nationality. As I said before, I don't agree with all of their policy, just the basics of it.

Apparently it is not officially a rule.

No, they would be south african or chinese. Nationally. You should never blend race and nationality together. It's offensive to many people and when you blur the lines and start giving people of different races different rights (like the nazis and the BNP) you get problems.

Quote:

"SECTION 2: MEMBERSHIP
1) The British National Party represents the collective National, Environmental, Political, Racial, Folkish, Social, Cultural, Religious and Economic interests of the indigenous Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the European race also resident in Britain. Membership of the BNP is strictly defined within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal ambit of a defined ‘racial group’ this being ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ and defined ‘ethnic groups’ emanating from that Race as specified in law in the House of Lords case of Mandla V Dowell Lee (1983) 1 ALL ER 1062, HL.

2) The indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ consist of members of: i) The Anglo-Saxon Folk Community; ii) The Celtic Scottish Folk Community; iii) The Scots-Northern Irish Folk Community; iv) The Celtic Welsh Folk Community; v) The Celtic Irish Folk Community; vi) The Celtic Cornish Folk Community; vii) The Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community; viii) The Celtic-Norse Folk Community; ix) The Anglo-Saxon-Norse Folk Community; x) The Anglo-Saxon-Indigenous European Folk Community; xi) Members of these ethnic groups who reside either within or outside Europe but ethnically derive from them.

Seems quite like a rule to me.
21-05-2009, 11:42 AM
clueless

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan2nd

Don't get me wrong but how did you even get onto the racist subject? You said their logo makes you feel sick and then decided to defend your views by bringing up the racist card... their logo is in no way racist to me it just looks like the letters BNP with the union jack flag patterned within the letters... if thats racist I'd hate to hear what you have to say about my car since that has a union jack on the roof as I'm very patriotic.

Im just saying everything about what they stand for I disagree with.
So even the site of their flag, hearing their name or seeing a member of them on the news just makes me sick

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

I'm sure that isn't their policy, find it is and your right but from what I have read on their website, it doesn't mention that.

Quote:

The British National Party (BNP) is a far-right and whites-only[14][15][16] political party in the United Kingdom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party

and a BNP member said it on the news the other day
21-05-2009, 11:49 AM
Immenseman

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

Basically from the people I know/have heard speak on the subject, my family believe that if someone takes someone elses life then they forfeit their own. I have heard family friends talk about it, even people who we hardly speak to. Also in my english class out of about 25 students, i'd say only 3 disagreed with it, and we'd gone through the whole 'what if innocents were executed' etc.

If someone murdered a friend/family members of mine, you could count on it i'd want them to face justice, at least life in prison or preferrabley the death penalty, both of which don't happen anymore as we seem to care more for the criminals rights rather than the victims.

I guarantee that if it was a question given to everyone in England it wouldn't be like 12 out of 100 people that disagreed with it like your "statistic" suggests.
21-05-2009, 11:51 AM
clueless

lots of people who say they agree with capitial punishment just know the face value views on it but when they come to hear the counter arguments to it they realise it doesnt work. thats happened in my experience anyway and then they are like 'oh' afterwards and dont agree with it after all!
21-05-2009, 11:53 AM
Immenseman

yeah, if people actually had the intellect to realise the full extent of capital punishment i doubt they'd agree. then again UKIP is from the north of england, people don't really have a clue :lol:
21-05-2009, 12:47 PM
Frodo13.

I really think that people who are thinking about voting BNP should think again and vote either UKIP or Conservatives.

I'm personally will be voting Labour on June 4.
21-05-2009, 03:44 PM
UKIP

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexxxxx

No, they would be south african or chinese. Nationally. You should never blend race and nationality together. It's offensive to many people and when you blur the lines and start giving people of different races different rights (like the nazis and the BNP) you get problems.

Seems quite like a rule to me.

Its very complicated and you mentioning the race/nationality thing has made me even more unsure. As I have said before I am against many of their policies but their policy of closed doors I agree with, at least at the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clueless

Im just saying everything about what they stand for I disagree with.
So even the site of their flag, hearing their name or seeing a member of them on the news just makes me sick

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party

and a BNP member said it on the news the other day

They don't have a flag, you say the sight of their flag yet it is the British Flag they use. Your playing the drama queen. As for wikipedia I wouldn't take it from there, the BNP website itself states anyone can join the BNP so that is their offical. Wikipedia also says the BNP is right wing, infact its very left wing aswell so basically it is a bit of both, yet wikipedia doesn't state this.

Also a BNP member would never say that, if it was their secret policy they wouldn't go shouting that on the television as that would just lose them votes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immenseman

I guarantee that if it was a question given to everyone in England it wouldn't be like 12 out of 100 people that disagreed with it like your "statistic" suggests.

Question it differently then, if someone from your family was murdered in cold blood, would you like to see that murderer face death? - i'm pretty sure you'd get a resounding yes. I would gladly push the button on any murderers or even better as this government should be doing, throwing away the key so that life means life, not 5 years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immenseman

yeah, if people actually had the intellect to realise the full extent of capital punishment i doubt they'd agree. then again UKIP is from the north of england, people don't really have a clue :lol:

A lot of people do know the full extent of capital punishment and know there can be mistakes. That is why personally i'd prefer to see life back, or even the death penalty for people we can be 100% sure of committed that murder, with todays DNA evidence.

Go back to Devon and look after some sheep Jakey babe. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frodo13.

I really think that people who are thinking about voting BNP should think again and vote either UKIP or Conservatives.

I'm personally will be voting Labour on June 4.

I would agree with that too.
21-05-2009, 04:03 PM
clueless

argh meant logo my bad :x and playing the drama queen? what do you mean by that? and i know what i saw, ill try find it on youtube if it hassels you that much
21-05-2009, 04:12 PM
UKIP

Quote:

Originally Posted by clueless

argh meant logo my bad :x and playing the drama queen? what do you mean by that? and i know what i saw, ill try find it on youtube if it hassels you that much

Drama queen by saying the logo/flag make you sick, when all the logo is are three letters stamped across the union flag. Please do, I don't support the BNP, but as far as I know they have never been that radical, at least on television.
21-05-2009, 04:16 PM
alexxxxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

Drama queen by saying the logo/flag make you sick, when all the logo is are three letters stamped across the union flag. Please do, I don't support the BNP, but as far as I know they have never been that radical, at least on television.

The people in the leaflet were not real people and were not all british. One couple were Italians. They were taken from stock photo sites.

http://www.crooksdesign.co.uk/stock-...hy-misuse.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__DdFiV7aT8

Watch that link. They are scum, dirty, dirty scum.
21-05-2009, 04:26 PM
UKIP

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexxxxx

The people in the leaflet were not real people and were not all british. One couple were Italians. They were taken from stock photo sites.

http://www.crooksdesign.co.uk/stock-...hy-misuse.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__DdFiV7aT8

Watch that link. They are scum, dirty, dirty scum.

Oh yes I know the leaflet is fake, as soon as I saw it I knew it was fake you can tell from the faces and awful poses. Indeed many are racists as I said before, but not all of them are racists and that is my point. I agree with you aswell on the fact that people should not vote BNP but should vote UKIP/Conservatives.

The BNP are not right wing in any sense I believe, as they are for basically, a government police state and the state in control, rather than the genuine right wing dream of individualism and small government.
21-05-2009, 04:40 PM
Ostinato

SNP 4 me m8
21-05-2009, 06:22 PM
MrPinkPanther

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

Wikipedia also says the BNP is right wing, infact its very left wing aswell so basically it is a bit of both, yet wikipedia doesn't state this.

No its not? Do you understand politics atall? Left wing is pushing for the socialist idea that everyone is more or less equal and has equal rights which is completely the opposite of what the BNP want. The BNP claim to support British people but behind closed doors it has been said that they want to ban Homosexuality, surely Gay people are British citizens too or have I gone insane? Some people vote BNP in general elections as a protest vote because the "first past the post" electoral system means that it doesn't matter. The EU system however is completely proportional so if people vote BNP in protest then me will see some BNP representatives in the European parliament. So please, if you wish to protest against the EU then vote conservative or even UKIP if you have too, just not the BNP.

Putting limits on immigration isn't racist but segregating those immigrants who already live in Britain is. If you wanted to move to America then you would expect to be able to, right? So why shouldn't people from other countries be able to move here? It works both ways.
21-05-2009, 07:05 PM
Dan2nd

Quote:

Originally Posted by clueless

Im just saying everything about what they stand for I disagree with.
So even the site of their flag, hearing their name or seeing a member of them on the news just makes me sick

Ok fair enough sorry for coming accross as rather aggressive before.
21-05-2009, 09:48 PM
UKIP

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyDuo

No its not? Do you understand politics atall? Left wing is pushing for the socialist idea that everyone is more or less equal and has equal rights which is completely the opposite of what the BNP want. The BNP claim to support British people but behind closed doors it has been said that they want to ban Homosexuality, surely Gay people are British citizens too or have I gone insane? Some people vote BNP in general elections as a protest vote because the "first past the post" electoral system means that it doesn't matter. The EU system however is completely proportional so if people vote BNP in protest then me will see some BNP representatives in the European parliament. So please, if you wish to protest against the EU then vote conservative or even UKIP if you have too, just not the BNP.

Putting limits on immigration isn't racist but segregating those immigrants who already live in Britain is. If you wanted to move to America then you would expect to be able to, right? So why shouldn't people from other countries be able to move here? It works both ways.

As I said it is a mix between the two, maybe next time before you launch an attack actually bother to read what I said. The idea of nationalisation applies directly to socialism, the idea that we should leave the EU would also apply not only to right wing supporters but also certain extreme groups such as communist/socialist partys. As on the issue of crime and punishment, their policies appeal not only to conservatives like me, but also extreme socialists.

Therefore they are a mix of the two, especially on the nationalisation issue which is against all conservative belief of small state and private enterprise. In conclusion, I do indeed understand politics.

As for the protest vote, yes I agree with you, and many conservative voters if having full knowledge of BNP proposals would be more inclined to vote for UKIP, and Labour supporters more inclined to vote for BNP - it is widely acknowledged. I would agree certainly, do not vote the BNP, vote UKIP.

If I wanted to move to America I would be put under tough regulations and checks on my age, criminal record and so on, as should be done here. I'm not totally against immigration, I, like the majority of this country, want some control over our own immigration.
22-05-2009, 09:13 AM
MrPinkPanther

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

As I said it is a mix between the two, maybe next time before you launch an attack actually bother to read what I said. The idea of nationalisation applies directly to socialism, the idea that we should leave the EU would also apply not only to right wing supporters but also certain extreme groups such as communist/socialist partys. As on the issue of crime and punishment, their policies appeal not only to conservatives like me, but also extreme socialists.

No. Being against the EU is a right wing policy so you cant use it as an example of how the BNP is partly left wing. Socialism believes in a large government which is exactly what the EU is, it believes people are naturally good and are naturally drawn to one another. The long and short of it is, the BNP supports leaving the EU which IS a right wing policy. Even if a left wing party likes it, it's still a right wing policy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

As for the protest vote, yes I agree with you, and many conservative voters if having full knowledge of BNP proposals would be more inclined to vote for UKIP, and Labour supporters more inclined to vote for BNP - it is widely acknowledged. I would agree certainly, do not vote the BNP, vote UKIP.

WHAT THE HELL!?!?. Why would Labour voters be inclined to vote for the BNP? Thats completely against everything that they believe. Surely if people are left wing then if they are dissolusioned with Labour then they would vote for the most left wing alternative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

If I wanted to move to America I would be put under tough regulations and checks on my age, criminal record and so on, as should be done here. I'm not totally against immigration, I, like the majority of this country, want some control over our own immigration.

Like I said, control over immigration is fine but thats not what the BNP wants. I have no problems with limits on immigration but we need to allow some. The BNP wants to segregate those immigrants already in the country but also to segregate certain areas of the British People such as Homosexuals. How can that be right?

To be honest it seems to me that you are making up facts to support your own political agenda which is obviously atleast a little bit racist.
22-05-2009, 03:07 PM
clueless

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

Drama queen by saying the logo/flag make you sick, when all the logo is are three letters stamped across the union flag. Please do, I don't support the BNP, but as far as I know they have never been that radical, at least on television.

Im saying any association with them i dislike and i disagree with their views whether they are radical or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan2nd

Ok fair enough sorry for coming accross as rather aggressive before.

its okay :)
22-05-2009, 04:13 PM
UKIP

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyDuo

No. Being against the EU is a right wing policy so you cant use it as an example of how the BNP is partly left wing. Socialism believes in a large government which is exactly what the EU is, it believes people are naturally good and are naturally drawn to one another. The long and short of it is, the BNP supports leaving the EU which IS a right wing policy. Even if a left wing party likes it, it's still a right wing policy.

WHAT THE HELL!?!?. Why would Labour voters be inclined to vote for the BNP? Thats completely against everything that they believe. Surely if people are left wing then if they are dissolusioned with Labour then they would vote for the most left wing alternative.

Like I said, control over immigration is fine but thats not what the BNP wants. I have no problems with limits on immigration but we need to allow some. The BNP wants to segregate those immigrants already in the country but also to segregate certain areas of the British People such as Homosexuals. How can that be right?

To be honest it seems to me that you are making up facts to support your own political agenda which is obviously atleast a little bit racist.

A lot of communist/socialist partys hate it aswell that is my point, the BNP is not all right wing, its a mix of the two and is precisely why I don't support it. It is true Labour voters would be inclined to vote for the BNP as the BNP provides what many hardcore Labour voters want and feel that the New Labour brand is too thatcherite in its principles. A lot of Labour voters feel communist and other socialist parties being too far on the left wing spectrum, so vote for the BNP as a protest vote rather than UKIP which is very Conservative, more so than the Conservative Party.

It isn't right, but the idea of controlled immigration is right. That is why I do not support the BNP as I have said before.

How dare you call me racist, I don't even support the BNP, your just throwing the term racist around like a ball. Don't say I make up stuff when your claming i'm a racist, if supporting controlled immigration/no immigration is racist then send me and the majority of this country to the gallows.
22-05-2009, 07:18 PM
MrPinkPanther

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

A lot of communist/socialist partys hate it aswell that is my point

As I said, that isnt actually relevant if a minority left wing party supports it. By DEFINITION the EU would be a left wing policy. This isn't debatable. The core ideology of Socialism is a belief in a large govement, I'm not talking about Socialist parties here. Pro-EU is left wing, Anti-EU is right wing. Its central to their ideologies. Fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

the BNP is not all right wing, its a mix of the two and is precisely why I don't support it.

So you're saying the BNP isn't right wing enough? Oh man thats stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

It is true Labour voters would be inclined to vote for the BNP as the BNP provides what many hardcore Labour voters want and feel that the New Labour brand is too thatcherite in its principles. A lot of Labour voters feel communist and other socialist parties being too far on the left wing spectrum, so vote for the BNP as a protest vote rather than UKIP which is very Conservative, more so than the Conservative Party.

You clearly don't understand the concept of a protest vote. People don't vote BNP in protest because they like them, they vote it in protest. Hence the name. They still feel inclined to vote but they aren't going to vote for a mainstream party such as the Conservatives which have a chance at beating their party. They vote for a minority such as the BNP which have no real chance of governance, they are sticking two fingers up to the party they support, not voting for a party which is one which completely conflicts with their ideology.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

How dare you call me racist, I don't even support the BNP, your just throwing the term racist around like a ball. Don't say I make up stuff when your claming i'm a racist, if supporting controlled immigration/no immigration is racist then send me and the majority of this country to the gallows.

If you support the BNP then you generally are a racist. Whether or not you say you support them you blatently do, thoughtout this thread you have stuck up for them and considering you said you'd rather vote for them than Labour and the Liberal Democrats you blatently aren't a very liberal person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP

send me and the majority of this country to the gallows.

No because unlike you I dont support needless capital punishment
22-05-2009, 10:12 PM
UKIP
Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyDuo

As I said, that isnt actually relevant if a minority left wing party supports it. By DEFINITION the EU would be a left wing policy. This isn't debatable. The core ideology of Socialism is a belief in a large govement, I'm not talking about Socialist parties here. Pro-EU is left wing, Anti-EU is right wing. Its central to their ideologies. Fact.

So you're saying the BNP isn't right wing enough? Oh man thats stupid.

You clearly don't understand the concept of a protest vote. People don't vote BNP in protest because they like them, they vote it in protest. Hence the name. They still feel inclined to vote but they aren't going to vote for a mainstream party such as the Conservatives which have a chance at beating their party. They vote for a minority such as the BNP which have no real chance of governance, they are sticking two fingers up to the party they support, not voting for a party which is one which completely conflicts with their ideology.

If you support the BNP then you generally are a racist. Whether or not you say you support them you blatently do, thoughtout this thread you have stuck up for them and considering you said you'd rather vote for them than Labour and the Liberal Democrats you blatently aren't a very liberal person.

No because unlike you I dont support needless capital punishment

The EU is indeed normally a left wing policy, but some on the extreme left see it as a right wing organisation, completly the opposite to communism/socialism while those on the right see it was a very left wing organisation. That is my point.

Who said the BNP isn't right wing enough?, I didn't say anything of the sort. I am simply stating that Conservative supporters who are disillusioned with the Conservative Party as it stands would be more likely to vote for UKIP as UKIP is far more right wing than the BNP. Your trying to twist my words to suit your side.

Many vote for the BNP as they believe in many of the BNP's principals of their policies and that they feel the main partys have lost their own principals and have all become centre wing. Then you have, as you say, protest votes. However as shown in recent polls the protest vote for the BNP over the recent scandal has not really boosted their support (from what we can see from the polls) as the BNP are flatlining on 4% whereas UKIP has over doubled in the polls, which tells us something; that UKIP's recent boost in support, is a protest vote but shows real support and trust for UKIP over the likes of the BNP and the Greens.

I do not support them, don't you put words in my mouth as you keep trying to do, the one thing I cannot stand in arguments is when you put words in my mouth, because when you start making stories up and presuming the whole argument it shows you have lost it.

I do not support them for a number of reasons;
- I believe their socialist economic policies would cripple the economy.
- I believe having the BNP as government would badly damage our relations with many countries.
- I believe many of their members/those higher up are indeed up to no good.
However I am defending parts of them because some of their policies do infact make sense, people do want to leave the EU, people do want tougher criminal sentences and people do want tougher immigration; or none at all. I believe in democracy, as do UKIP who seem the strongest advocates of democracy, and that means I believe any party should be able to stand, no matter how far to the right or left they are, as I believe if you are going to ban partys considered to be to the far right then you have to do the same for partys on the extreme left, many would would love to see a communist revolution in this country, so both can be just as dangerous.

I would rather see a BNP seat in the European Parliament than Labour or Liberal Democrats, because while they wouldn't hold any real power they would defend our interests, something that Labour and the Liberal Democrats certainly do not do and the Conservatives flip regulary as any mention of the EU brings the party into chaos.

That doesn't mean I am racist, if you still think so your just using the racism card as your backup as I have discussed things like this in the past, and all the other side seem to be able to do is hold up the racism card no matter what I say, and despite the fact I don't support the BNP at all and wish for UKIP/Conservative to do the best in the European Elections.

That had nothing to do with what I said on immigration, your just avoiding my points now.