General Election ~ Should one be called now?

At the start of June it was becoming apparent that the Labour Government were facing certain difficulties, certain members of the cabinet resigned and labour lost a substantial amount of votes during the European Parliament elections.

It has been called by David Cameron (the opposition leader), leaders of other parties such as the Lib Dems & UKIP along with even a couple of members of the Labour Party that Gordon Brown should set a date for the next General Election and make it sooner rather than later.

A General Election must be called by Summer 2010, however the above want one earlier.

I believe that Gordon Brown is right not to call a general election at the moment, as he has to gain trust in a lot of the British people to retain their vote in the General Election.

But we'll see..
What do you think?

I think we should have a general election to get rid of the cheating corrupt MPs we have and this failure of a government, especially as they are trying to ram through the Lisbon Treaty as their last slap on the face to the United Kingdom. In essence i'm sick of Gordon Brown saying he needs to gain peoples trust and how lessons have been learnt when they never are, people have had a taste of the Gordon Brown experience and the European Parliament Elections and the opinion polls show us people want him and Labour out and now.

Being relatively neutral aka I don't care I can see both sides of the argument. It's obvious why Brown wants to delay it until Summer 2010, he needs to have time to try and get some support back. He's not stupid he knows if he called one now it's very unlikely him and labour will win. However, I can understand why Cameron and the other major party leaders want an election now. Labour are weak and they want to take advantage. Plus, arguably it's time for change and with all the scandal that has engulfed us over the last couple of months.

The Lisbon Treaty which Undertaker hasnt even read...

For gods sake read it before you talk trash about it, makes you look completely ignorant.

As for an election Brown has a mandate for another year so I'm not totally fussed. The worse it gets hopefully for both main parties the more chance it gives the Greens for potential seats in the Commons. Fingers crossed!

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Originally Posted by LuketheDuke

The Lisbon Treaty which Undertaker hasnt even read...

For gods sake read it before you talk trash about it, makes you look completely ignorant.

As for an election Brown has a mandate for another year so I'm not totally fussed. The worse it gets hopefully for both main parties the more chance it gives the Greens for potential seats in the Commons. Fingers crossed!

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You mean like the former Europe Minister (Labour), Caroline Flint didn't read it?

There is nothing more to it, it is giving the European Union more power and allows it to act as a state on the international platform. Am I not allowed an opinion in an election because I haven't read all the manifestos? - no.

The supporters of the Lisbon Treaty also admit it is exactly the same as the former Consitution - why will you eurocrats not accept that nobody wants the European Union?

LISBON TREATTTTTTYYY!

I can understand why they want him out out out, but holding a general election now isn't exactly the best option in my opinion. I think Gordon Brown should stick it out, who knows what he could pull out the bag. Its unfortunate that people only focus on the negatives than having an overall look at it, but I guess its the way voters go. Stick it out till 2010 I say, then when the time comes when they have to (or if Labour get a huge surge of support) then hold one :8

Edit: I want the European Union, so nobody is a bit of an overstatement

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Originally Posted by Sammeth.

LISBON TREATTTTTTYYY!

I can understand why they want him out out out, but holding a general election now isn't exactly the best option in my opinion. I think Gordon Brown should stick it out, who knows what he could pull out the bag. Its unfortunate that people only focus on the negatives than having an overall look at it, but I guess its the way voters go. Stick it out till 2010 I say, then when the time comes when they have to (or if Labour get a huge surge of support) then hold one :8

Edit: I want the European Union, so nobody is a bit of an overstatement

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If there was an amazing fanbase for the European Union then why won't the governments across Europe hold referendums?, more to the point why is the European Union making the Republic of Ireland vote again?

The word 'no' just doesn't seem to register with eurocrats.

^ There we go, shows that Undertaker's own personal views aren't that of the nation and his disregard to accept anyone elses opinions only harms his arguments.

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Originally Posted by LuketheDuke

^ There we go, shows that Undertaker's own personal views aren't that of the nation and his disregard to accept anyone elses opinions only harms his arguments.

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I can't believe i'm being told by a EU supporter that my views don't reflect those of the nation. I am afraid they do, the French, Dutch, Irish all rejected it and it would of been rejected if we had been given the referendum we were promised.

Can I ask, would you support the proposal for the whole of Europe to have a referendum on whether or not they want their country to be in the European Union?

&

Would you support the United Kingdom having a referendum on the Libson Treaty?

Go for it and I'd vote yes, as would many others.

But thats not the purpose of this thread, this is about a General Election.

And on that matter I dont care when we have an election just so far as Labour and the Conservatives are stung heavily for being the small minded, corrupt politicians that they are. :eusa_danc

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I can't believe i'm being told by a EU supporter that my views don't reflect those of the nation. I am afraid they do, the French, Dutch, Irish all rejected it and it would of been rejected if we had been given the referendum we were promised.

Can I ask, would you support the proposal for the whole of Europe to have a referendum on whether or not they want their country to be in the European Union?

&

Would you support the United Kingdom having a referendum on the Libson Treaty?

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Implying the French, Dutch and Irish have anything to do with the British nation.

http://i42.tinypic.com/k0hedf.jpg

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Originally Posted by Niall!

Implying the French, Dutch and Irish have anything to do with the British nation.

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Well taking into account they were the only three nations to give their people a say on the reformation of the European Union (two have since forced it through and the Irish are only getting to vote again because their consititution forces them to hold one when national sovereign powers are being give away), and considering we are one of, if not the most anti-EU country in Europe i'd say the chances of the treaty passing in this country are very small.

People would vote for the European Union yes, because they are often the left who would love to see a European Superstate - but the fact remains, people do not want it hence why we are not being given the option.

I think he shouldn't, a democracy is all about voting for someone to be the leader of the country. Gordon Brown was not voted, he got chucked the status at him. The country should be given the vote, afterall, that's what a deomocracy is and if people want Brown, they will vote for him. He cannot pick himself up between now and summer, it would be impossible considering the sorry state we're in, especially when he goes back on his word like I.D. cards.

As for the EU, it's again an unelected party that destroys national identities. The only benefits of the EU were before the EU wanted power - when trading was easier (even though there's not that much difference, companies still stick to their base countries) and anyone in the EU could freely travel around europe (of course with some limitations). That's the only time I remember the EU working, now the EU wants power it's causing conflicts with all countries yet the EU aren't there to care about the individual countries, they only want money and power (and an army if rumours are true).

I fail to see the benefits of a United States of Europa. It will fall apart at the seams and won't go anywhere other than poverty being wiped around everywhere, because the rich countries would have to contribute towards the poor, even though neither of countries want such a help.

I agree that Gordon Brown is unelected but bare in mind when you vote, you're voting for the party not someone to lead the country. You vote the party in the hope that they will always have their best person leading the party throughout their term.

If we began voting in a leader of the UK instead, surely they'd be more of a president than prime minister.

stick it out to the bitter end. make some grand-scale policy changes but don't sell out on your ideas. and do it now so it sets in. there's no reason for him to hold an election, he has nothing to lose.

and there isn't enough in the news for anyone to really understand what goes on there apart from odd laws that get passed. once people are more involved and the media start picking it up i think more people would be interested in europolitics. united we stand, divided we fall.

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Originally Posted by Jordy

I agree that Gordon Brown is unelected but bare in mind when you vote, you're voting for the party not someone to lead the country. You vote the party in the hope that they will always have their best person leading the party throughout their term.

If we began voting in a leader of the UK instead, surely they'd be more of a president than prime minister.

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Indeed, but when you vote you tend to vote for the party who has a campaign behind them to "promise" (I use that loosely ;)) certain changes, and the leader of the party usually is at the hub of the campaign and you then hope that if there is a new person put in place of the Prime Minister, they will keep on target with what they were voted in for (and with the current Labour Government, I'm not sure what those goals were/are :/ )

I don't really see Brown as Prime Minister, he's just someone who took the place of Blair until another party is voted in.

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

Indeed, but when you vote you tend to vote for the party who has a campaign behind them to "promise" (I use that loosely ;)) certain changes, and the leader of the party usually is at the hub of the campaign and you then hope that if there is a new person put in place of the Prime Minister, they will keep on target with what they were voted in for (and with the current Labour Government, I'm not sure what those goals were/are :/ )

I don't really see Brown as Prime Minister, he's just someone who took the place of Blair until another party is voted in.

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well that's not how our democratic system works. and he was voted in as an MP in his local area that he represents. some people DID vote for him.

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

well that's not how our democratic system works. and he was voted in as an MP in his local area that he represents. some people DID vote for him.

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Sadly not, which is why people look at it as a shambles :P Yes, but that's some, not everyone had the choice. It's like me saying I voted (whoever it was in the local elections) and now I expect him to be PM.

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

Sadly not, which is why people look at it as a shambles :P Yes, but that's some, not everyone had the choice. It's like me saying I voted (whoever it was in the local elections) and now I expect him to be PM.

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Well if we physically have to vote him as PM, then we should start voting for all PM's from now on. The whole thing about him being unelected is utter nonsence - he was re-elected to Parliament in 2005, and therefore has every right to be PM.

And as per usual, Undertaker has got his fact wrong. Ireland is the only EU state to have held a referendum, and thats only because it is a legal obligation to do so. At least do a tiny bit of research before you splurt rubbish over the forum.

No one was exactly against Brown though, it was all "omg Tony Blair sucks yay for a new prime minister!!!" :rolleyes: I never understood the EU, I don't know who gave permission to some people to be the unelected rulers of the nations of Europe. It's a pointless plan to give some autocrats unlimited power.

Actually Frodo both the French and the Dutch had referendums on the reform of the European Union so don't try and twist my words, the Consitition and the Libson Treaty are the exact same (EU supporters have said it themselves) minus a badge and emblem. Nice try attempting to twist my words.

ifuseekamy has it spot on, who asked these people to govern us and create over 75% of our laws yet they are unelected? - nobody did. I genuinely believe the European Union is no more democratic than the former Soviet Union.

..noth had spineless parliaments with no real power and both ruled from the top, unelected and not wanted by the people.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Actually Frodo both the French and the Dutch had referendums on the reform of the European Union so don't try and twist my words, the Consitition and the Libson Treaty are the exact same (EU supporters have said it themselves) minus a badge and emblem. Nice try attempting to twist my words.

ifuseekamy has it spot on, who asked these people to govern us and create over 75% of our laws yet they are unelected? - nobody did. I genuinely believe the European Union is no more democratic than the former Soviet Union.

..noth had spineless parliaments with no real power and both ruled from the top, unelected and not wanted by the people.

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Why does he have it spot on? We just voted for our MEP's who are now going to serve a term in office til the next European Elections so no we dont have "unelected people" dictating how our country is run. And the SOVIET UNION LOL. yea the EU is secretly putting millions of people into work camps and killing them off.

Seriously please learn about the EU.

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Originally Posted by LuketheDuke

Why does he have it spot on? We just voted for our MEP's who are now going to serve a term in office til the next European Elections so no we dont have "unelected people" dictating how our country is run. And the SOVIET UNION LOL. yea the EU is secretly putting millions of people into work camps and killing them off.

Seriously please learn about the EU.

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It is the top of the EU which has the real power and the parliament has limited powers. Oh indeed it seems far fetched but both never asked the people if they wanted it and both have shams of a parliament that holds no real power.

We are not talking about killing camps we are talking about the systems of the political unions, which are similar. Do not try to move the subject away from the fact their political systems are similar by mentioning other issues which have nothing to do with it.

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Originally Posted by LuketheDuke

Why does he have it spot on? We just voted for our MEP's who are now going to serve a term in office til the next European Elections so no we dont have "unelected people" dictating how our country is run. And the SOVIET UNION LOL. yea the EU is secretly putting millions of people into work camps and killing them off.

Seriously please learn about the EU.

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Talk about avoiding the topic which is just blatently true... I don't want the European Union full stop, I'd support anyone who will remove us from the EU and I'd even go further to say I'd even vote the BNP if they were promising us that. Sadly with politicians, a promise is just a shallow way of saying, "We might do it, we might not do it". No guarantees... :(

I agree with ifuseekamy, I never even knew the EU existed until 2008/2009, it came out of bloody nowhere and is suddenly shoving all this legislation into the British nation's faces. I mean if the government were to introduce what the EU introduce, all hell would break loose. I don't see the appeal of it, honestly. Why can't countries be united by their own similiar aims in their societies, instead of having to be put into this group where laws are forced so they HAVE to meet similiar aims?

I don't think the EU does much for anyone really, it's a bit of a crap deal. >.>

Yes we did ask for the EU, we had a referendum on it in the 70's.

It is an independent organisation seperate from our own parliament that discusses broad based policy for the good of the EU. Why else have the pound and euro remained so strong in this crisis, because of negotiated pre planned trading that keeps both currencies afloat and efficient. I like the sound of that.

And you are being a sensationalist when you compare the EU to the Soviet Union and its probably quite offensive too when you consider the hardship many went through being involved in such a regime.

Can you do something else when you read the Daily Mail? Maybe try reading Fred Bassett rather their featured spun articles.

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Originally Posted by LuketheDuke

Why does he have it spot on? We just voted for our MEP's who are now going to serve a term in office til the next European Elections so no we dont have "unelected people" dictating how our country is run. And the SOVIET UNION LOL. yea the EU is secretly putting millions of people into work camps and killing them off.

Seriously please learn about the EU.

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Just saying that it's pointless, which is pretty true. Why do we need a "European Union"? We existed fine for decades without one. To me it just seems like an excuse for power hungry bureaucrats to get what they want by enforcing legislations on how bendy a vegetable is or the diameter of an apple and acting as if it's for the greater good.

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Originally Posted by Pyroka

Talk about avoiding the topic which is just blatently true... I don't want the European Union full stop, I'd support anyone who will remove us from the EU and I'd even go further to say I'd even vote the BNP if they were promising us that. Sadly with politicians, a promise is just a shallow way of saying, "We might do it, we might not do it". No guarantees... :(

I agree with ifuseekamy, I never even knew the EU existed until 2008/2009, it came out of bloody nowhere and is suddenly shoving all this legislation into the British nation's faces. I mean if the government were to introduce what the EU introduce, all hell would break loose. I don't see the appeal of it, honestly. Why can't countries be united by their own similiar aims in their societies, instead of having to be put into this group where laws are forced so they HAVE to meet similiar aims?

I don't think the EU does much for anyone really, it's a bit of a crap deal. >.>

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Pyroka for PM.

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Originally Posted by LuketheDuke

Yes we did ask for the EU, we had a referendum on it in the 70's.

It is an independent organisation seperate from our own parliament that discusses broad based policy for the good of the EU. Why else have the pound and euro remained so strong in this crisis, because of negotiated pre planned trading that keeps both currencies afloat and efficient. I like the sound of that.

And you are being a sensationalist when you compare the EU to the Soviet Union and its probably quite offensive too when you consider the hardship many went through being involved in such a regime.

Can you do something else when you read the Daily Mail? Maybe try reading Fred Bassett rather their featured spun articles.

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That was not the European Union, that was the EEC which was a economic union and not a political union, again nice attempt at trying to make me look stupid however its just flown back onto you because they are not the same things.

Independant organisation - exactly. We elect our parliament for our country, we do not want over 75% of our laws being made by an unelected independant body. Why can you not understand this?

No it is not offensive, you dodged the question fair and square. I am not talking about the prison camps or crimes against humanity, I am talking about how similar the two unions political systems are. You ignored this point and are carrying on about how it is possibly offensive, yet again avoiding my points.

Why keep bringing up the Daily Mail? - is that the only thing you people can manage to say to me, if so then how boring is it getting now. I am here making my discussion and putting my point of view across, so how about you confront my point of view instead of mentioning the Daily Mail every five seconds?. I could easily say to you all to go and read the Guardian or some other liberal/left wing newspaper but I refuse to because I want a real discussion.

Look the EU formulate what happens with economical affairs in Europe, these clauses are ratified in treaties such as the Lisbon Treaty which puts the cogs into motion.

We had our chance to vote for MEP's and they champion British interests so if you don't like it ask why hardly anyone turned out to vote. After all these people vote on what goes into stuff like the LT.

And the argument that we worked for years without it is valid, but we've been part of the EU for nearly 40 years now and everything seems to have gone OK.

And stop rabbiting on about the Soviet Union being comparable to the EU, did the USSR have a court of human rights or elections every 5 years?

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

If there was an amazing fanbase for the European Union then why won't the governments across Europe hold referendums?, more to the point why is the European Union making the Republic of Ireland vote again?

The word 'no' just doesn't seem to register with eurocrats.

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Sorry if we moved on from this, but I didnt read the rest as I don't care. But I never implied there was an amazing fanbase for it, I said that Im for the EU so you can't use the phrase "nobody wants it" as there still are people who do.

Nobody means nobody, nobody doesn't mean the minority want it!

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Originally Posted by LuketheDuke

Look the EU formulate what happens with economical affairs in Europe, these clauses are ratified in treaties such as the Lisbon Treaty which puts the cogs into motion.

We had our chance to vote for MEP's and they champion British interests so if you don't like it ask why hardly anyone turned out to vote. After all these people vote on what goes into stuff like the LT.

And the argument that we worked for years without it is valid, but we've been part of the EU for nearly 40 years now and everything seems to have gone OK.

And stop rabbiting on about the Soviet Union being comparable to the EU, did the USSR have a court of human rights or elections every 5 years?

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No excuse me, why should we have to elect British people to defend us in a foreign organisation which makes over 75% of our laws?. It was a low turnout as elections usually are a low turnout and when you have partys such as Labour promising referendums then breaking their promises its no wonder why people don't bother to vote. Besides, the French and Dutch voted no and the second time around their governments didn't give them a say as they knew it would be voted down again, the Irish voted it down once and they are being made to vote again until they 'get it right' - so really it makes you think whats the point.

We have gone without the European Union for around 960 years before the last fourty years, also the fact still remains that fourty years ago we signed up to the EEC and not the European Union.

The Soviet Union did have parliamentary elections just like the European Union, and just like the European Union the top of the hierarchy was unelected; so I will not stop 'rabbiting' on, maybe you should start confronting the discussion head on in future instead of bringing crimes against humanity into the subject which had nothing at all to do with the issue.

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Originally Posted by Sammeth.

Sorry if we moved on from this, but I didnt read the rest as I don't care. But I never implied there was an amazing fanbase for it, I said that Im for the EU so you can't use the phrase "nobody wants it" as there still are people who do.

Nobody means nobody, nobody doesn't mean the minority want it!

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Obviously some people will vote for it and some people want it, and overall nobody wants it as that is what referendums and opinion polls across Europe have shown us. If the people of Europe were given a choice tommorow the EU wouldn't exist the day after - simple as that.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

No excuse me, why should we have to elect British people to defend us in a foreign organisation which makes over 75% of our laws?. It was a low turnout as elections usually are a low turnout and when you have partys such as Labour promising referendums then breaking their promises its no wonder why people don't bother to vote. Besides, the French and Dutch voted no and the second time around their governments didn't give them a say as they knew it would be voted down again, the Irish voted it down once and they are being made to vote again until they 'get it right' - so really it makes you think whats the point.

We have gone without the European Union for around 960 years before the last fourty years, also the fact still remains that fourty years ago we signed up to the EEC and not the European Union.

The Soviet Union did have parliamentary elections just like the European Union, and just like the European Union the top of the hierarchy was unelected; so I will not stop 'rabbiting' on, maybe you should start confronting the discussion head on in future instead of bringing crimes against humanity into the subject which had nothing at all to do with the issue.



Obviously some people will vote for it and some people want it, and overall nobody wants it as that is what referendums and opinion polls across Europe have shown us. If the people of Europe were given a choice tommorow the EU wouldn't exist the day after - simple as that.

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Nobody is the wrong word to use.

"When the European Union (EU) was created in 1993, the EEC was transformed into the European Community, one of the EU's three pillars, with EEC institutions continuing as those of the EU".

Just showing you that we're discussing chambers within chambers here.

I'll stop here as yet again this aint going nowhere, this isnt what the threads about anyway. You have your opinions and I have mine but please don't come on here and protest to know things about the EU in depth enough to try and manipulate a misguided view against such an organisation. I'm indifferent to ithe EU anyway but after learning about it recently I get a tad agitated when your on here spouting this that and everything and not promoting what plusses it produces which if you look at our boring back catologue of posts you'll see there are a fair few.

And dont accuse me of this Soviet Union thing over and over because I said you were being a sensationalist to put your point across and you clearly were.

case closed pls.

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Originally Posted by LuketheDuke

"When the European Union (EU) was created in 1993, the EEC was transformed into the European Community, one of the EU's three pillars, with EEC institutions continuing as those of the EU".

Just showing you that we're discussing chambers within chambers here.

I'll stop here as yet again this aint going nowhere, this isnt what the threads about anyway. You have your opinions and I have mine but please don't come on here and protest to know things about the EU in depth enough to try and manipulate a misguided view against such an organisation. I'm indifferent to ithe EU anyway but after learning about it recently I get a tad agitated when your on here spouting this that and everything and not promoting what plusses it produces which if you look at our boring back catologue of posts you'll see there are a fair few.

And dont accuse me of this Soviet Union thing over and over because I said you were being a sensationalist to put your point across and you clearly were.

case closed pls.

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No we are discussing the European Union, not previous organisations such as the EEC. If I am spouting rubbish then why did you keep dodging the points I made. Maybe I am being sensationalist - sometimes its the only way to get a solid reply out of you, then again you kept dodging that claim and don't seem to of tackled it (yet again).

Yes, case closed indeed. :)