So the big protest against the Tuition fee rise and cuts to the University budget is coming up tomorrow, just wondering who's coming up to London?
It starts at 11.30, I'm gonna roll out of bed at around 11.15 and go :D. Woop woop!
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So the big protest against the Tuition fee rise and cuts to the University budget is coming up tomorrow, just wondering who's coming up to London?
It starts at 11.30, I'm gonna roll out of bed at around 11.15 and go :D. Woop woop!
I'm not and I wouldn't. I think it's moronic - people have to understand spending cuts need to be made, and prices have to rise. And the tuition fees will only go up if the University agrees to give discounts to poorer families, so tbh, it's not a big issue.
Well firstly the rise to £9,000 will result in the marketisation of Education. Look at the world university rankings, how many in the top 25 are British, a hell of a lot. Its because we have one of the best higher education systems in the world. To put it simply its because undergraduates go to universities based on the suitability of the course and not because of the attached price tag. Had my course been £9000 a year then would I be here? Absolutely not. Sure the government says they will help poorer students but it is impossible to judge someones wealth and actually if it's based on the current system then it is highly flawed. The current system is based on parental income from 2 years previous, firstly as the recession has shown the economy can take a turn for the worse extremely quickly completely changing peoples financial situations and secondly it is based on the assumption that parents are willing to pay for their children.Quote:
Originally Posted by R0BB13G
People say why should other people have to pay for our degree and thats a valid point but thats exactly what progressive income taxation is for. If someone earns a lot then they pay back a lot, by the governments own admission graduates tend to earn over £100,000 more than those who do not attend university. From the governments perspective university would pay for itself several times over because of this anyway. Why should we penalise those who attended University and rather than taking a high paid job are taking a fairly middle income job and are instead opting to help contribute to society. Take my Sister for example, she graduated from Oxford university and yet after 3 years working shes on a salary a little over £20,000, why? Because she works for a charity. I find it absolutely ridiculous that you think that she should pay the same for her education as someone such as a banker who is using his privileged education for selfish means. Income tax solves this, tuition fees do not, its completely regressive and in the long term will damage our economy.
The fundamental problem is parliament works in 5 year terms. They aren't looking to future stability, they are looking to cut the deficit within the next parliament. Lets be clear, these cuts WILL damage the economy beyond repair. Did you know for every £1 you invest in Higher Education you get £2.60 back approximately £1.30 of which is recovered in taxation?
Now you tell me why tuition fees are ok.
The marketisation of education is already here when Thatcher brought in choice. However, I am against a rise in tuition fees simply because fees a debt of close to £35,000 (that's just a hypothetical figure btw but 9000 x 3 + other expenditure and I'd say it was pretty close) is likely to put off poorer families anyway. Also, I do believe under the new system that Browne suggested the top unis would be able to charge more than the lower unis (I think this is what you meant by marketisation?), which also means it's likely we'll have all the rich who can afford it in the top unis and all the poorer unis in the lower unis. I also think that it depends on subject so science courses would cost more than 'the arts and humanities', which tries to define and validate 'soft' and 'hard' options which I disagree with as well.
Despite all that, I can't go on the march. I'd love to but I can't afford it LOL the irony.
Still a hell of a lot cheaper than most countries
That's my thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Technologic
Plus, 9000 is the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM, and most Uni's will not be allowed to charge more than 6000/yr unless they give hefty reductions to poorer families.
I don't see the problem with tuition fees, if we didn't have them we'd be in so much debt it's unreal >;l
and the spending cuts are clearly improving the economy? According to top economists...so yeah.
Just because other countries have high fees, doesn't make it right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Technologic
I hate how poorer families are like 'oh well we can get discounts coz we are poor'. Blah blah blah.
People seem to forget, that those of us whose parents earn more than all the government schemes include, don't have an easy life. My parents for example, earn a lot more money than they can for me to get EMA, but I can tell you now, I do not get £30 a week for going to college.
someone obviously hasnt looked at it properly or isnt planning on going to uni :)Quote:
Originally Posted by R0BB13G
im not going but good luck to all those that do.
and agreed with milestone, not everyone in the uk is 'poor' and can get discounts
I'm planning to go to Uni, in fact I'd like to go to Cambridge, and no my parents aren't overly rich, but I think everyone slating it is just being blind to the truth that it has to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myke
i might be going after school, but thats if its still ongoing. A lot of people i know are going
I think I'm going to go....
it is a massive issue. spending cuts need to be made but do you know the country spends over 2 billion a year solving problems directly caused by alcohol? If that was even halved and pumped into education in general think how much of a difference that would make?Quote:
Originally Posted by R0BB13G
i didn't go marching because i live in Guernsey. we are in the UK and governed by the government. However i will be facing international tuition fees because we're not officially in the EU so yeah that's another problem we face.
the bottom line of it is that too many unis are open and too many people go so it's not exclusivised like it should be therefore no one can possibly be funded because what you do for one you do for another it seems. there is no system of hierarchy anymore to any great deal and the people going to the top unis are getting penalized for being clever and able because they have to pay more for the privilege under the new proposed system whereas the poor less able will be subsidized to go on a three year jolly. I do believe the less able people with genuine intelligence should be helped though.
All three main parties support tutition fees and have raised them time and time again - those of you who can vote all voted for it when you placed a mark in the box next to either Labour, Conservative or Liberal Democrat.
Why is anybody who did the above suprised about this latest blatent disregard for the British people?
best vote ukip thenQuote:
Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-
Well UKIP are against tuition fees yeah, or you could vote for any other party or nobody at all - but at least then you aren't voting for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by immense
There's no point everybody pretending to be suprised by this latest lie, they do it all of the time - both in and out of office.
If you don't like it then don't vote for it.
I would go but I don't know anyone going, and I don't fancy going to a protest on my own!
oh that is a bummer :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean
and I'm going with some friends, gonna marker up a white t-shirt on the tube init
LOL I don't think my mates would be bothered anyway, everyone was like BLACK OPS today! Oh well :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Rozi
Have fun ;)
This is about tuition fees not your own personal agenda. Gay.Quote:
Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-
There's no point you marching around with signs, only come next election for you to vote for more of the exact same.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPinkPanther
Apparently, if UKIP are against any fees, then they will just turn us in to Greece.Quote:
Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-
http://www.ukip.org/content/latest-n...ition-fee-hikeQuote:
Originally Posted by Milestone
The grants system, although it would mean that overall we have less people going to university - but that is a good thing, at the moment we have too many so called 'mickey mouse' courses running and people who aren't suited to university are going to university because they feel as though there is little option. The education system overall is a mess and successive governments have tinkered around with it doing little to make it much better, first off the grammar system needs to return and work our way up from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by UKIP
But what i'm saying is, there are other options out there - there's no point people kicking up a fuss when they are going to go back to the ballot box come next election, and vote to continue the status quo.
Get over it, earn some money or get a loan. We can't go on being spoonfed by the government
I'm going because I voted Lib dems, and I feel done by that they went back on one of their promises, the main one that made me vote them. I'm leaving 11:45PM tonight from Edinburgh.
you're my idol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyroka
Posts merged by Bolt660 (Forum Super Moderator): Caused by Forum Lag
I was going to make the epic trip from Cambridge but I have a coursework deadline and an exam tomorrow, can't miss those and my college doesn't support the campaign :(
Would love to be there supporting the cause though!
Thanks lol no biggieQuote:
Originally Posted by MrPinkPanther
If i see you tomorrow then i'm gonna hug you. What do you look like?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyroka
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...4_938905_n.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by MrPinkPanther
probably whati ll be wearing too
In some ways I agree with you - but loans are costly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Technologic
In all fairness, you're not in a debt where you have to pay it no matter what, you have to be in a job which pays so and so much a year, so it's still an alright deal. But I think people dislike it, or one of the reasons they do, is because money is wasted elsewhere which people do not even want and yet something which people do want is being removed.
Meh, it was bound to happen and we pay alot less than other countries. If it becomes a chore, we could always do what Americans do and just get part-time jobs, which alot of British students currently do anyway, it's just no-one has caught on :P
I'll be there, I agree with rises of tuition fees (afterall costs need to be cut) but the fact that most universities will be trebling their fees is unacceptable.
Why? Why do they need to be cut? The current deficit in University education stood at a mere £4 Billion over a period of 4 years, relatively little considering the NHS budget will cost over 100 times that in the same period. The UK has one of the leading University sectors in the world, in fact judging by the QS World University rankings, 4 of the top 10 Universities are from the United Kingdom including the number one spot. Not bad considering our size. Lets ask ourselves why. We have the best Universities in Europe and so we attract the best European undergraduates. In my group of 5 close friends only one of them is English other than myself, sounds bad right? Well not when you consider that every one of them wants to stay in the UK. All of them are high achievers and are honestly some of the most academic people that you could ever meet and all of them will be contributing to our economy in the future. Now, because they are in the EU they pay the same fees as us, would they be here if they were 3 times as high? Not likely, in fact I know several people said they would have applied to the US if it weren't so expensive, with all of the grants that you get over there the price difference isn't actually that great after a tuition fee rise here, in many cases it would even be cheaper to study over there. On top of this as I quoted earlier, it's estimated that for every £1 you put into Universities you get £2.80 back, theres a reason for that. Higher Education is an invaluable resource because it literally provides the future of Britain, lets not put that at risk over a mere £1 Billion a year shall we?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hecktix
The raise in tuition fees will also affect peoples living. A lot of people go to universities out of town to be more independent, makes you the person you are when you leave uni. I was going to go to a uni out of town, but with the new tuition fees I'm thinking of living at home where the cost will be a lot less. So not only will we have less uneducated people, we'll also have less independent people.
They also raised the budget for international development.. to help other countries with medical and education, would it not be best to educate people in the UK who can move abroad to help developing countries, like some sort of contact - government pay for your education if you agree to do a year or two helping developing countries :P
They'd save money if they closed all the crap universities and stopped letting them run useless courses. If they go ahead with it, well look at the brightside: you pay back a small percentage of every £1000 you earn over the threshold of £21,000 income after graduating. It's not America where your parents either start saving up from conception or you have to be smart enough to get a scholarship.
hahahaha
Quote:
1.51pm:
Paul Lewis is also outside the Conservatives Millbank HQ, where workers have been evacuated after 200 protesters gained entry. Police have "batons raised" in an attempt to clear the building, Paul says:
Police have just stormed the building with batons in what looks like an attempt to clear the area, however the attempt failed. Some batons were used to strike out at protesters inside, but police have left the protesters inside and instead formed a line in front of the entrance to the building.
We have a stand off.
Office workers have been evacuated from the building, after a warning message was sounded out inside. They are now sitting on grass opposite.
1.37pm:
Some protesters have broken into the Conservative party's Millbank headquarters, our man on the ground Matthew Taylor says:
I'm at 30 Millbank, the Tory HQ, and there's around 200 people inside Tory HQ, with several thousand outside.
Protesters are shouting: "Nick Clegg, we know you, you're a ******* Tory too."
Police are pushing through as we speak, there's a lot of jostling going on.
The usual rent-a-mob are out in force today, just like we had under Thatcher.
To Jake though, you might find this interesting (or you may choose to bury your head in the sand as many on here usually do).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...s-evolved.html
Today we can all see tribal politics at its worse, had the Labour Party been in the same position now then I can gurantee you would not have the same reaction (see above again concerning the rent-a-mob). All three main parties have lied, so before you all run off back to the Labour Party - pull your head out of the sand and realise that they are exactly the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Telegraph
you missed out the fact that university numbers increased considerably, with the working class still going. that will be impossible now. better thread in spam with updates about this anyway. to compare what happened then is bizarre. most of the hatred is towards nick clegg and the lib dems - it didn't take them two years - 6 months. it's disgusting. they're just like ukip, saying things to get voted and then not following them through. load of ****.
..and thats part of the problem, there are too many people going to univesity with too many mickey mouse courses being run. That aside though, address my point - Labour have lied on this issue aswell, so why Jake are they [Labour] any better than the current coalition government?