Conservative Party failure on immigration as it soars by 20%

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...h-numbers.html

Immigration soared by 20% last year - making a mockery of Government pledge to bring it DOWN

• Migration Watch UK: 'These figures lay bare the legacy of the Labour government'
• Number of Poles living in the UK has risen from 75,000 in 2003 to 532,000 at the end of last year

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Originally Posted by Mail

The number of people migrating to the UK soared by more than 20 per cent last year, according to official figures released today. The rise from 198,000 in 2009 to 239,000 last year flies in the face of the Government's pledge to bring net migration down to just tens of thousands by 2015. Net migration is the difference between those arriving and leaving the country in 12-month period. 'These figures lay bare the legacy of the Labour government,' said campaign group Migration Watch UK' chairman Sir Andrew Green.

'Immigration last year was close to a quarter of a million. 'The coalition Government will have to face down some vested interests if they are to get anywhere near their target of tens of thousands.' The increase was fuelled by sharp drop in the number of people leaving the UK to live abroad.

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Soaring figures: number of people migrating to the UK soared by 20% last year

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Originally Posted by Mail

Gerard Batten, Ukip's home affairs spokesman, branded the Government as 'losing the plot' when it comes to the figures. 'The rise of 21% in year-on-year net immigration figures tears a gaping hole in any pretence that this Government has the faintest idea of how to deal with runaway migration,' he said. 'This gives a lie to all those silky promises made by (Prime Minister David) Cameron at the time of the General Election and the thousands of soundbites by Government ministers since then. They have lost the plot.'

He said the rise meant 'that the population of a city the size of Stoke-on-Trent has arrived in the UK in the last year alone'. 'These headline net figures also disguise an even more concerning trend, and that is the transfer of population made clear by the gross figures which show that over half a million - more than the population of Sheffield - have arrived in the last year, while 336,000 have left,' he said. 'The social impacts of this are even greater than the bald figures make clear. 'This Government is afraid of dealing with the issue and it is frightened of talking seriously about the it.'

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Ukip's Gerard Batten, left, has slammed the Government for its 'silky promises' about immigration, while Immigration Minister Damian Green, right, says the coalition is working on ways to 'drive down' figures

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Originally Posted by Mail

Shadow Home Office minister Shabana Mahmood accused the coalition of not being 'honest' with the public. 'These figures reveal the gulf between the Government's rhetoric on immigration, and the reality we see in the official figures,' she said. 'Since an immigration cap was introduced by the Government, the number of work-related visas issued has gone up. 'Net migration, the Government's measure for its pledge to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands, now stands at 239,000. 'The Prime Minister said "no ifs, no buts" on immigration, but on the contrary "ifs and buts" sum up the Government's policies.' She went on: 'The Government is not being honest with the British public.

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Schools which have to cater to children with different languages, people taking out of the welfare system who have never put in, the inability of us to control EU immigration because we no longer are allowed by the EU to control our own borders, a government which talks tough but is just like the last government..... what an utter mess. When I warned to Conservative Party voters that this government would be the same as the last, one policy they held up to me was this one - I rightly said that i'll believe it when I see it....... and here we are.

The Labour Party, Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrats will not cut immigration, time to stop pretending. At the next election they'll all say exactly the same as before that they are going to be tough on immigration (even though they can't as members of the European Union) - is anybody going to fall for it again is the question.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are: Politicians don't do what they say they will do and promise. They sugar coat and lie to get into office. They are not the public servants they should be and we're better off trying a party that hasn't got identical brothers/sisters. So we should ought to rule out the New Labour Party, Conservative Party and Liberal Democrats from the polls, and vote for a party that may actually be different and do what they say they will do. The top three are just the same party speaking the same language using different words that mean the same thing. They act exactly the same :P I don't get why we even have a voting system in this country, we change from New Labour to Conservatives yet we may as well be voting for tomatoes and tomataes, or Aubergines and Egg Plants.

That huge net migration figure is heavily due to a much lower emigration though, rather than a heavily increased immigration.

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Originally Posted by jackass

That huge net migration figure is heavily due to a much lower emigration though, rather than a heavily increased immigration.

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And a government which has pledged to reduce net immigration has failed utterly.

Well, it's technically impossible for the government to do much about it because we appear to be members of the EU (For some reason.)

I definitely agree that all these politicians "sugar coat" their way in to power.

Hardly any of their policies have even been thought about or been successful - good example immigration. I do think that we should definitely be looking for "different" parties to be elected into government, not the same, boring labour, lib dem. and conservative - more like Green, U.K.I.P and BNP (if you want them in :L).

And yeah, whilst we're part of the EU, we can't really stop it - but it is absolutely ridiculous how many immigrants come into our country - it's perfectly acceptable if there's a war in their country, or a "huge disaster", but if they come here, get benefits and relax all day , for no reason -that's just incredibly stupid. Also I don't understand why they think they can all crowd into 1 place. The UK is only a small island - we can't hold tonnes of people :S.

The only way immigration rates will drop , is if U.K.I.P get elected (they may or may not do something about it). or if.. BNP get elected - but they aren't fairly popular to people, so for now, it look likes immigration is here to stay high!

( Just a side note - i'm strongly against the conservative party, they haven't really done much good for this country :/ )

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Originally Posted by Wazzervaldez

I definitely agree that all these politicians "sugar coat" their way in to power.

Hardly any of their policies have even been thought about or been successful - good example immigration. I do think that we should definitely be looking for "different" parties to be elected into government, not the same, boring labour, lib dem. and conservative - more like Green, U.K.I.P and BNP (if you want them in :L).

And yeah, whilst we're part of the EU, we can't really stop it - but it is absolutely ridiculous how many immigrants come into our country - it's perfectly acceptable if there's a war in their country, or a "huge disaster", but if they come here, get benefits and relax all day , for no reason -that's just incredibly stupid. Also I don't understand why they think they can all crowd into 1 place. The UK is only a small island - we can't hold tonnes of people :S.

The only way immigration rates will drop , is if U.K.I.P get elected (they may or may not do something about it). or if.. BNP get elected - but they aren't fairly popular to people, so for now, it look likes immigration is here to stay high!

( Just a side note - i'm strongly against the conservative party, they haven't really done much good for this country :/ )

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It would be a disaster if either the Green party or the BNP got in to power.

The mail and others have 'cherry picked' bits of information to suit their purposes and given a skewed account of what is going on. I have no love for this government but to actually get the facts relating to this I suggest you have a look at the actual report:
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migrat...011/index.html |
The headline in The Mail states that immigration has soared by 20% which is highly misleading. The immigration figures seem quite static but emmigration has fallen dramatically so the 20% is difference between those who have immigrated and those who have emmigrated and does not show any actual significient rise in immigration at all. There seems to have been a bit a band wagon jumping here by parties keen on stopping immigrattion. It also seems that short term immigration for the purposes of work has fallen by 40%
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/search/ind...ion+short+term

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

The mail and others have 'cherry picked' bits of information to suit their purposes and given a skewed account of what is going on. I have no love for this government but to actually get the facts relating to this I suggest you have a look at the actual report:
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migrat...011/index.html |
The headline in The Mail states that immigration has soared by 20% which is highly misleading. The immigration figures seem quite static but emmigration has fallen dramatically so the 20% is difference between those who have immigrated and those who have emmigrated and does not show any actual significient rise in immigration at all. There seems to have been a bit a band wagon jumping here by parties keen on stopping immigrattion. It also seems that short term immigration for the purposes of work has fallen by 40%

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Immigration is the action of coming to settle in a country.
Emmigration is the action of leaving the country to settle in another.
Migration is the term used to describe both combined.

Therefore in describing immigration as soaring by 20% is true, as a proportion (as the graph clearly shows) immigration to the United Kingdom has jumped despite what the government has pledged. I am afraid you have your language muddled up.

As for parties seizing upon this, the Labour Party in which you support never did anything about this problem and instead made it worse - so i'm afraid you yourself can't go around lecturing people on the subject especially concerning migration figures in which the Labour government lied to us about [concerning Eastern European immigration of which we can't control because we're a member of the EU]. But can I ask you a question, do you think immigration should be controlled as opposed to as it is at present, uncontrolled?

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/search/ind...ion+short+term

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Do these government figures include the one million+ estimated illegals living here or those getting in via visa abuse? thought not.

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The rise from 198,000 in 2009 to 239,000 last year

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No, Dan, immigration is the amount of people who have entered the country. The headline is not MIGRATION it is immigration. Again even you can see that this has not soared 20% in the last year. Also I am not sure how many illegals in are this country but that has nothing to do with with that report. That's a totally different issue.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

No, Dan, immigration is the amount of people who have entered the country. The headline is not MIGRATION it is immigration. Again even you can see that this has not soared 20% in the last year. Also I am not sure how many illegals in are this country but that has nothing to do with with that report. That's a totally different issue.

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I'll be technical here and that as a proportion it has - the graph clearly shows that in terms of migration, that immigration has increased as a proportion by 20% due to emigration falling. I would side with you had the graph not been included as its playing with words, but its pretty clear.

But besides, you didn't answer whether you thought we should have controlled immigration.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I'll be technical here and that as a proportion it has - the graph clearly shows that in terms of migration, that immigration has increased as a proportion by 20% due to emigration falling. I would side with you had the graph not been included as its playing with words, but its pretty clear.

But besides, you didn't answer whether you thought we should have controlled immigration.

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Well that is just playing with the figures to suit your stance Dan and you know it. Tbh I haven't thought that much about whether or not it should be controlled as it is not really on my list of priorities right now. It maybe of interest to you but not to me. There are greater challenges to be sorted out there than this.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Well that is just playing with the figures to suit your stance Dan and you know it. Tbh I haven't thought that much about whether or not it should be controlled as it is not really on my list of priorities right now. It maybe of interest to you but not to me. There are greater challenges to be sorted out there than this.

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Try telling that to people who live in areas where the people don't speak English, or where teachers can't teach because there's ten different languages in the class. I'm pretty sure you've thought about it and your mostly fine about it, like most of the people who live away from it because they can afford to. As for the figures, the figures show its still rising (immigration) - I don't have to fiddle figures, unlike this and the last government.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Try telling that to people who live in areas where the people don't speak English, or where teachers can't teach because there's ten different languages in the class. I'm pretty sure you've thought about it and your mostly fine about it, like most of the people who live away from it because they can afford to. As for the figures, the figures show its still rising (immigration) - I don't have to fiddle figures, unlike this and the last government.

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Again personal in bold. Why do this all the time? I agree immigration might be rising but it is not the extremely exagerated 20% as quoted. I am confused as to why you mention children that cannot speak english. What actual negative significient effect does that have on our country or the people who live in the area? The teachers are paid to do a job and I am sure that there is help with the diversity of languages although I agree that adults should make the effort to learn the language and I am sure a lot of them do. It is only natural though they should want to speak their first language in their personal lives. This does not mean that they cannot speak english and I don't see a problem with that. I am sure britains who move away to a country with another language do that as well.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Again personal in bold. Why do this all the time?

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Of course its personal, you don't live near it yet advocate total uncontrolled immigration just like the political elite in the main three parties (with some exceptions). Yourself and the political class can't preach to me 'diversity' when you have no grasp of the problems people face with ghettoisation in their areas. I always find it funny that the people who advocate 'diversity' are never ever the ones who live in the midst of it.

To see how out of touch this is, see your question below.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

I agree immigration might be rising but it is not the extremely exagerated 20% as quoted. I am confused as to why you mention children that cannot speak english. What actual negative significient effect does that have on our country or the people who live in the area?

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Is this a serious question? do I really have to mention the fact that it is near impossible to teach to a class which speaks ten or more languages? do I really have to mention the fact that ghettoisation of areas where English-speaking people feel increasingly alienated when most people around them cannot speak the native tongue?

I think you've just demonstrated just how far removed from reality you are.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

The teachers are paid to do a job and I am sure that there is help with the diversity of languages although I agree that adults should make the effort to learn the language and I am sure a lot of them do. It is only natural though they should want to speak their first language in their personal lives. This does not mean that they cannot speak english and I don't see a problem with that. I am sure britains who move away to a country with another language do that as well.

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British ex-pats who do the same are just as bad, but none of our concern.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Of course its personal, you don't live near it yet advocate total uncontrolled immigration just like the political elite in the main three parties (with some exceptions). Yourself and the political class can't preach to me 'diversity' when you have no grasp of the problems people face with ghettoisation in their areas. I always find it funny that the people who advocate 'diversity' are never ever the ones who live in the midst of it.

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Where have I ever said I have supported 'uncontrolled immigration?

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To see how out of touch this is, see your question below.


Is this a serious question? do I really have to mention the fact that it is near impossible to teach to a class which speaks ten or more languages? do I really have to mention the fact that ghettoisation of areas where English-speaking people feel increasingly alienated when most people around them cannot speak the native tongue?

I think you've just demonstrated just how far removed from reality you are.

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I am in touch with reality, thanks. :P 98% of the population speak english. You know every child has to learn to a language. Parents teach their children every day. At a young age it comes easily to the child. If Teachers are faced with an out of proportion quota of non english speaking children then it is up to the education authority/local authority to provide them with help to overcome this. I live in a country where there are two languages - english and welsh and nobody feels alienated. Everyone has a right to speak in their native language in their personal lives and if anybody feels threatened by this then I believe they are somewhat paranoid. Personally I just feel this is not the issue - you just don't like immigration - fullstop.

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British ex-pats who do the same are just as bad, but none of our concern.

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Good enough for them but not good enough for us then. :P

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Where have I ever said I have supported 'uncontrolled immigration?

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So you don't support the previous and present governments'/EU policy on immigration?

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

I am in touch with reality, thanks. :P 98% of the population speak english. You know every child has to learn to a language. Parents teach their children every day. At a young age it comes easily to the child. If Teachers are faced with an out of proportion quota of non english speaking children then it is up to the education authority/local authority to provide them with help to overcome this.

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Hang on, why should I pay for people to learn the language here?

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

I live in a country where there are two languages - english and welsh and nobody feels alienated. Everyone has a right to speak in their native language in their personal lives and if anybody feels threatened by this then I believe they are somewhat paranoid.

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But you know aswell as I do that English is the double language - I have not a problem with people being able to speak two languages, my problem is that areas of this country have become ghettoised to the point where the only language spoken is the native language and not English - who do you think people who are alone in these areas ('natives' or first generation immigrations) will turn to?

If such large numbers settle in a short space of time, the need for them to learn English is removed - this is a bad thing for reasons explained earlier.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Personally I just feel this is not the issue - you just don't like immigration - fullstop.

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I don't like uncontrolled immigration and I don't like its consquences of British culture being eroded along with tensions arising, no.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Good enough for them but not good enough for us then. :P

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Not really, most of these places with large English-only speaking areas are places like Spain which have no choice due to their membership of the European Union. This country however shouldn't settle for the worst.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

So you don't support the previous and present governments'/EU policy on immigration?

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I am not sure if the open immigration from the EU was a good idea. I feel maybe we should have taken a stronger stance on this. The illegal immigrant problem probably was not dealt with properly.

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Hang on, why should I pay for people to learn the language here?

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Because they are immigrants you mean? I think you will find that most immigrants pay taxes themselves but in any event if you want them to speak english then they need to be taught it.
Are you against special need tutors too as this is essentially a special need.

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But you know aswell as I do that English is the double language - I have not a problem with people being able to speak two languages, my problem is that areas of this country have become ghettoised to the point where the only language spoken is the native language and not English - who do you think people who are alone in these areas ('natives' or first generation immigrations) will turn to?

If such large numbers settle in a short space of time, the need for them to learn English is removed - this is a bad thing for reasons explained earlier.

I don't like uncontrolled immigration and I don't like its consquences of British culture being eroded along with tensions arising, no.

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Immigration was also very high in the 1950's and it has been shown that the 2nd and 3rd generation do speak english. You know if there were race riots and indeed a lot of tension nationwide I may agree with you to a certain extent that it should be looked into but this is just rhetoric with very little factual evidence to support it.

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Not really, most of these places with large English-only speaking areas are places like Spain which have no choice due to their membership of the European Union. This country however shouldn't settle for the worst.

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So it is okay for them but not okay for us as I said before. That's a bit hypocritical isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

I am not sure if the open immigration from the EU was a good idea. I feel maybe we should have taken a stronger stance on this. The illegal immigrant problem probably was not dealt with properly.

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Indeed - it was actually planned out.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Because they are immigrants you mean? I think you will find that most immigrants pay taxes themselves but in any event if you want them to speak english then they need to be taught it.
Are you against special need tutors too as this is essentially a special need.

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I have much more of a problem paying for immigrants (who have not put into the system for a long period of time nor should be entitled to the benefits system for this reason) to learn the English language than I do for special needs tutors. I am rather concerned however that you are comparing genuinely disabled people to people who cannot speak the English language and want me to pay for it as a 'special need'. The mind boggles.

In terms of special needs, I don't think we should aim to pay for that either eventually - I would very much like everybody to keep the great proportion of what they earn (including the mothers and fathers of those children) so that they can allocate and spend it how they see fit - rather than how the government see's fit.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Immigration was also very high in the 1950's and it has been shown that the 2nd and 3rd generation do speak english. You know if there were race riots and indeed a lot of tension nationwide I may agree with you to a certain extent that it should be looked into but this is just rhetoric with very little factual evidence to support it.

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There is a lot of tension nationwide in these areas Rosie, I know a area in Liverpool itself which has had all the 'natives' move out (including first and second generation immigrants who are just as British as I am) because the area has been totally ghettoised into differing areas. It is also an area which has experienced riots in the past as a result of people not integrating properly and feeling 'on the outside' - whilst immigration is done in such large numbers, this will occur.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

So it is okay for them but not okay for us as I said before. That's a bit hypocritical isn't it?

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What Spain should decide its immigration policy is is upto Spain itself, Spain is a sovereign nation (at least in theory) and is entitled to do whatever it should wish regarding its borders - personally if I were Spanish I would feel exactly the same with British ghetto's springing up often with accompanying antics of drunken and foolish behaviour - but i'm not concerned about Spain here, i'm concerned about the United Kingdom and what state our cities are in. The first step however, as always, is to leave the European Union.