Isit possible to tweak the criteria so one doesn't have to b an ex-eo?
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Isit possible to tweak the criteria so one doesn't have to b an ex-eo?
What's your Reasoning?Quote:
Originally Posted by bloop
~~from phone
I believe @mdport.; allows people who haven't previously been EOs to trial and if they pass the trial, they get to choose to stay as regular EOs or step down to guest. You'll have to speak to him about that though.
I thought the point f the guest role was to allow some leeway to those that have already proven themselves (not necessarily in the events department, of course) to be dedicated to habbox. Is it now just a part time role open to anyone because of the desperation for numbers?
~~from phone
not at all, in fact all guest eos we currently have fit into that criteria. although if someone's hosting is exceptionally good and people enjoy their events, but they can't meet the 3 a week minimums due to irl commitments, then an exception can be made although on very rare cases.
Guest roles just inspire laziness tbh and often used by old staff who don't want to be there, want the staff perms/get the behind the scenes goss/chat and would actually be full time provided the right opportunity came along or if the guest role did not exist. I mean no offence to jazz and gina who are great DJs and have proven time and again they are capable of the senior roles but they were guest DJs and now apparently they're not busy enough to be promoted to a position which is more work than a regular DJ. It makes no sense.
Instead of trying to hold onto old staff that don't want to be there full time, we need an active Habbo presence to get new staff who won't look to guest roles as something to aspire to!
I can assure you that is not the reason i am a guest eo lol? Your argument doesn't fulfil those who are already in a staff role + take on a guest role.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inseriousity.
I choose to be guest eo because some weeks i really only do want to host 1 event and don't mind helping events out now and then, some weeks I'll host more than one but I don't want full dedication to the department.
only Gina was a guest, I'm pretty sure Jazz was a regular dj (although I could be wrong here) and i know her reasons for that. a lot of guest staff do more than their guest minimums anyway, but they can't promise that they'll be able to do so every week and it's much safer for them to stay in that position than become regular staff and have to constantly post away if they can't meet the regular minimums for that week. if someone is constantly meeting the regular minimums then management do step in to ask them to become full staff rather than guest since it's silly to meet regular minimums every week but only become guest staff.
i was regular fnx, besides a lot of the guests (me included) used to/still hit regulars minimums but because they have busy lives they dont have to do themQuote:
Originally Posted by Inseriousity.
They don't inspire laziness if the role is used correctly. For example, someone who was in the department for years, who proved themselves and then gained manager - for name sake we will use Mathew, he resigned and went to university and now, if he was to come back to Habbox and wanted to be an Events Organiser it may be near impossible to do 3 events per week therefore the Guest role is specifically suited for him is it not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Inseriousity.
The Guest DJ role is similar, the likes of Jaiisun when he was one was mainly because they're usually the older generation that can't commit to the workload - although it's only 2 hours per week they have to prebook them. Again this could be near impossible depending on what they do day to day (university, work etc.)
Although, to an extent I agree - I don't believe those in a Guest Role should then have other jobs that [B]usually[/B ]require less time than others. DJing is 3 hours per month yet some have senior positions which doesn't make sense (although in some cases I can understand, as on some days I'd want to host and others I wouldn't). In November I received a PM about returning to the department which I thought was nice given my past record. It was based on the quality of events a lot of us put on, but I asked if I would qualify for a Guest Events Organiser position as I knew I'd never been senior in the department, but I had been acting manager and couldn't commit to knowing when I could host an event. When I received a reply I was away therefore couldn't get back to Matt, but I decided I am a manager and I'm able to host if I wish anyway and leave a space for someone who does fit into it more.
When I created the role it was mainly suited for Senior Event Organisers or above (a bit like Guest DJ to an extent), this has since changed which is fine, but I do agree it should be used for people who have proven themselves. For example, I'd allow people like Plebings to be a Guest Events Organiser if I was the manager, as he has proven himself even though he wasn't a senior.
Essentially, the guest roles used to be for alumni and now they are simply part time positions.
~~from phone
Sorry jazz thought you were guest too for some reason, my bad.
I was talking more generally about the role hayden. There will be exceptions in every department but fundamentally, the role of 'guest' [insert role here] is a lazy attempt to hang onto older members of staff and I have seen enough of managers' varied attempts to do this to know that ultimately it is not often in the best interests of the department long-term.
For instance, there have been numerous occasions when managers have asked older staff to return to the department. Being wanted and valued means that they very often do. Then they remember why they left in the first place.
I had a rule as comps manager that I wouldn't try to persuade someone to stay. Staff that wanted to leave were replaced and if they wanted to return they had to wait until applications were open. The one time I ignored this rule to try to maintain the very good atmosphere that the department had was also the time that a couple of months down the line, 3 members of staff resigned roughly around the same time when it would've been more staggered and easier to manage had I followed my own rule. Short term benefits, long term losses.
Departments are struggling to hire new staff so it is easy to bring in guest staff and water down the criteria needed to become 1. Personally, I would scrap the role - I think it does more harm than good - and focus on getting an active Habbo presence with the full time staff you've actually got to attract new people who will want to commit themselves full time. These are the people we need. I would expect at least half of the guest staff would actually go to a regular role were the option of less work not available to them.
The criteria has already been tweaked since the role of Guest Events Organsier was initially introduced. It used to be that in order to qualify for the Guest role you had to have been a Senior or above within the Events Department. We got rid of this to encourage more staff to consider returning and in this case we did see a lot more interest in the role. If we changed it so that you didn't have to be a previous Events staff member, I get the impression we'd see people who are unfamiliar with the official protocol joining the department and ... how to phrase this, be a waste of a Guest role? I believe that if someone wants to join the department and hasn't had substantial experience (which means I can be assured they will follow the correct procedures etc), they should be a trialist and/or a normal EO. So to answer your question, I find it very unlikely that the current criteria will change to allow for people without experience to join as a Guest. I have turned down people due to the fact they have not been in the Events Department at Habbox before. If people really wanted to host events they'd join as a trialist and gain experience as a normal events organiser. 3 Events a week really isn't that much!
I did origionally offer people trials and then give them the option to step down to a Guest, however I kind of changed my mind on that and decided that the Guest Role should be a privilege based role. I think it's great to have people who have stood out in the past, rejoining and becoming a Guest. If you've had no experience hosting Events at Habbox, what harm would it do if you had to put up with the role of a normal Events host in order to gain that experience, to show us that you are more than capable of hosting and that you aren't just wanting to join and get away with hosting the bare minimum each week. Trialing you for a week and then giving you the role of Guest, to me, is too much like easy work as you've only just entered the department for the first time.
I would totally disagree with the 'inspires laziness'. I have Guest EO's that host 3 Events a week and are willing to go above and beyond what is required of them as a Guest. If we scrapped the role of Guest at this moment in time, I'd be left with literally 1 EO. The way I see it, the Guests host Events, they are there and willing to host when asked, they enjoy hosting and they quite often host more than the 1 Event a week. Although it's a lesser minimum than normal staff and they could/should just host the 3 Events a week, it's better then having no staff at all.
Gaining more staff is so much easier said than done. If I scrapped the role altogether and tried to focus on gaining more staff, I'd get a feedback thread asking me to explain why it's only me and like 2 other hosts providing the entirety of Habbox with Events. My current Guests give me something to fall back on and I know for a fact that they are hosting each week due to it being a requirement. Their minimums were changed to 1 Event per week instead of just the 4 per month as we had staff members sitting in that role and not hosting for months on end and just being pure lazy. This meant we could hand out more warnings (on a weekly basis rather then a monthly basis) and dismiss staff who were being lazy. This also make it clear that we expect Guests to be active in their role throughout each month and not just pop up in the final week in each month to meet their requirement.
I will keep a cap on the amount of Guests I have - it just seems that no one wants to/likes the idea of being normal staff at the moment. This is something which hopefully will improve as time goes on.
I've been working all weekend and just got home, sorry if this is really hazy!
TL;DR - The Guest role isn't just for lazy people & I don't see a need for the criteria to change at the moment.
What is all this talk about laziness? It's an unpaid voluntary position, if they want to be lazy then so ******* well be it.
Only at Habbox could we moan about people only giving up an hour of their time per week.
@Kyle; ok I swear I posted a reply yesterday zzz
Anyway, I have restricted use on my laptop and sometimes come on lesser than 1 hour or gtg all of a sudden. I would love to host events for Habbox tho, but its just impossible (which I wish not to elaborate here). If I could sign up as a triallist, I must as well be a full eo? :P but anyway, thanks matt for your reply x.
Hosted an unofficial event and got scouted by habbcrazy to join their events team, so thought that I coulnt be too bad could I? :P guess ill stick to hosting unofficial events for habbox :).
- - - Updated - - -
Oh woops realise I'm pretty selfish requesting the rules to be changed because of me
Yes it is an unpaid voluntary position but if you create a tier of volunteering where some are able to volunteer less than others then naturally people would rather be in the one that is less work, same staff privileges. At least when the role isn't there, there is a level playing field and everyone is expected to volunteer the same amount of time.
It is also lazy because it is so much easier to tinker with bureaucratic systems than the much harder task of actually getting out there and attracting new people. As matt has pointed out, he would only have 1 EO if the guests were scrapped so essentially, the guests are a crutch for the short-term that is ever expanding into the long term (as evidenced by tinkering with the criteria for the role) and it is simply not a sustainable system of doing things. If some guest staff are already doing above and beyond the minimum expected of regular staff then I am sure that they would go into that position if the guest role was not around.
If people choose to volunteer less then they volunteer less. As long as their level of volunteering isn't having a negative contribution then there is no criticism that you can levy against the people who do it or the policy that enables them to do so.
Surely if you can host unofficial events, why can't you join and host official ones?Quote:
Originally Posted by bloop
Some of ur posts are really long and I'm watching TV so I haven't read through the posts properly on the second page but yh.
I think you shouldn't have to be an ex member of staff to be guest staff in that department. In fact I think if people step down to guest it's already pretty certain they're gonna leave. Each case should be looked at individually by mdport. and maybe Shonly and then a decision can be made about whether or not they're right for the role of guest EO. Don't just look at their application, look at their activity on the forum, what kind of person they are, whether or not you think they'd be good at hosting events, etc.
Perhaps change "You must have been an Events Organiser+" to "It would help if you were an EO" but it's not compulsory yh
There is if that policy has a negative effect on the level of volunteering long-term, which Habbox cannot afford to rest on its laurels. I saw with my own eyes as AGM the damage it did to the HxL department with senior staff resigning to become a guest DJ. I scrapped it. Those staff that resigned eventually returned as regular staff. When Grig returned to the department and increased the members of international staff by actually building up a network of contacts, the department's staff numbers were revived so it can be done and it is possible. Now if managers wanted to test lowering/scrapping the minimum for everyone to attract new staff, that is up to them and I would consider it a bold and risky step that Habbox could do some more of. Until then, I will still argue that the guest roles do more harm than good.
Person cannot commit to contributing an entire 3 hours a week = don't pretend you ought to be called staff, which implies you actually work
Person can commit to contributing an entire 3 hours a week = well done go apply and good luck to you
If guest staff are doing above and beyond as is being claimed then they should simply join as proper staff, the guest role makes no sense at all other than to make it appear that we have more staff than we really do. People hosting events "unofficially" and promoting Habbox every now and then is far better than having a whole bunch of what appears to be inactive staff, and god knows we have enough empty slots in the calendar every day for that to be an option. By all means allow ex staff who have already been through the trial phase to skip trials, but inventing an extra role that means less effort and all of the same benefits as newer staff who really go for it has no bonuses to it at all. No-one currently wants to be normal staff because there is absolutely no incentive to be.
fully understand not wanting to sign up if it meant doing 3 events a week, gotta take into account time it takes to build/prepare - could add up to 5+ hours a week which is a lot of time to dedicate to a fansite, especially if you're coming on habbo less and less. for me hosting comes in batches, some weeks or even months i dread the idea of hosting, but for instance this month i'm motivated enough to actually do something.
staff numbers may look low, but what really matters is how many events are hosted. think of ways to encourage "unofficial" events. i asked shonly if i could do my xmas games for habbox and she was more than happy to comply.
instead of pushing the blame on "lazy hosts", focus on how habbox recruits, habbox's image. when people join events they join because of the community or the brand. you want more people to join? make sure the habbox events already booked are popular and fun. hosting a boring game and waiting 20 mins for 6 people to queue up is not a good image. habbox has the tough task of maintaining hxhd, most fansites use their events as lounges too. when people come in and see other fansites that bring more people with chattier staff that is much more enticing than what habbox offer. not saying hxhd should close, just saying it's a tough battle and people in hxhd should be more willing to move room to help the site out. when doing my event on friday had a fair few habbox people come in, but when i went to hxhd to ask intersocial to come he was really mean and refused :'(
Here's what you do:
Create Community EOs which can be managed by the EO staff, and remove the Guest EO rank (or any Guest rank through Habbox for that matter if possible).
Anybody should be able to be a community EO with the supervision of any Habbox staff of a certain rank, idk senior and above? There's always at least 2 habbox staff at every event anyway.
Community EOs don't need access to staff forums, they don't need staff permissions, they just need to put into their room description "this is an event sponsored by Habbox, ran by its ordinary members and is not a staff-run event". If Community EOs need to be told stuff, they're told on a need-to-know basis from the EO manager.
Community EOs can have their own forum to post up events and when they want to do them but ultimately EO staff events get prioritized.
Got any problem with that? Assistant EO manager would focus more on community-run events and EO manager would focus on the staff EOs more.
Anybody got any issue with that? I hate the idea of Guests, this makes it more informal.
Why convolute the role more than is needed by adding separate forums and restricting access? Just allow people to complete reasonable monthly minimums when staff numbers are low and involve them more in the organisation of larger scale events so that they are still involved and interested I habbox. Fully understandable that people do not feel like they want to host events week in week out but why not just hire them anyway? Staff numbers are too low to refuse. Guest role can remain, just reserve it for those that join in more sporadically but host GOOD and WELL ORGANISED events, like plebings, like graham in the past, like habbic, red, samanfa and others during down periods in tournament seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyRy
As long as a team is properly managed and maintained and stays dedicated where they can, there is no need for this constant push to either meet minimum or join another site which will take what they can get and use it to grow their brand.
~~from phone
Maybe that's some factors but for me it was about leniency even though i'd DJ quite a lot more than some regular DJs, I didn't like being tied into something, giving commitment that sometimes i wouldn't be able to follow through with. Perhaps that's why others like the guest role? I dunno, maybe you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inseriousity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inseriousity.
@Shonly;
If the guest role is opened to all staff from the get go and you're adamant to keep it, perhaps 'part-time' and 'full-time' applications should be issued as that is pretty much what it is. Otherwise i think there should be a criteria for the guest position, determining how it should be giving based on commitment and time given to the department in the past, it shouldn't be given out so lightly.Perhaps give additional perks to those full-time staff as an incentive. Although I don't agree with it, it's more descriptive.
Assuming the events Department still has the reward system or whatever, do Guest Events Organisers get included in that? Also, do they get reports?
I think the introduction of part-time, full-time, community EO's etc wouldn't really be necessary and would create so much confusion. Having Guests, Normal Staff and Seniors who all have access to the same forums does the job fine. We don't just accept anyone and everyone who applies for the role of Guest either. I think i've been quite strict as to who I've accepted into the role as I have turned down people who have not met the criteria. People who have shown dedication within other departments or who have hosted Events, in a managerial role for example, I believe would be good assets to the team. So in that regard, if someone expressed interest in the role that is well known and has been at Habbox for a while (not someone who has just joined and who has no experience with Habbox as a Fansite), they could be put on a trial or given the role of Guest straight up (keeping in mind that I want it to stay as a privilege role).
Getting rid of the minimum, not sure I like that idea at all. Yeah it may encourage people to join but would we actually see Events hosted or people just sitting there with the staff permissions and usertitle, doing literally nothing. It could potentially be lowered (as an alternative) but if that were the case you could easily merge the Guest role and Normal role and have them all hosting 2 Events a week (seeing as there would only be 1 Event/Hour difference). That could be an option although most other major Fansites have a 3 Event minimum and they seem to be coping fine.
Since I've been manager, I've given all Staff in the department a report. I know previously some managers didn't provide the Guests with any report comments at all. I felt this isolated them from the rest of the team and provided little encouragement or support. They are still staff members of the Events Department so yes in my last set of reports all staff were given a comment, including Guests.
There is a reward system that was put in place by Paige and that is still going but it's not playing an overly huge part in the daily running of the department. I was trying to think of a new system to put in place but yes all staff get included in the current one. This system focuses on the weekly leaderboards as well as weekly/monthly performances within the department from each staff member.
I also agree that there is no incentive whatsoever for the Normal role. Hmm...
http://www.habboxforum.com/calendar.phpQuote:
Originally Posted by mdport.
Йthe suggestion was not to remove minimums but to be more lenient on those that feels they will not be able to meet them every week , providing that they do more than required in other weeks.
~~from phone
Would that not be more of a monthly requirement then? 3 Events per week = 12 a month. I host 2 in 1 week so in one of the remaining 3 weeks I'd need to host 4 in order to make the 12? That would be one of the only ways to monitor staff activity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle
Everyone currently meets their minimums unless posted away. Those who weren't meeting the minimums are no longer in the department. The days of pre-booking are very much over, we've known that for a while and it's been brought up in almost every single feedback thread concerning Events! The fact none of those days have more than 10 Events is because of the lack of staff. I wouldn't say anyone in the department is lazy as we got rid of anyone that wasn't pulling their weight! I do check the calendar everyday :PQuote:
Originally Posted by FlyingJesus
Wouldn't need to be so much of a monthly requirement as a simple disclaimer that there is less pressure to meet weekly requirements so long as the hours are made up by the next week at the latest, putting less strain on those who have off weeks where they are either bogged down with real life commitments or just aren't feeling like having to interact with people. It means that people will host because they want to, not because they have to, and event-goers will have a better experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdport.
~~from phone
If no-one books events in advance we might as well get rid of the calendar, it's just advertising our lack of events at the moment and a private one in the form of a thread in staff forum can be maintained if there really needs to be something booked in advance. Anyone who isn't staff who wants to keep track of it won't have any difficulty counting to four in CNB anyway
You could give normal EOs the right to bump guests from their slots.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdport.
You're merging several ideas from different people into 1 and then basing your argument against them on that, which is a slightly unfair starting place to knock ideas down from. For instance, I think Ryan has clearly said that community EOs would replace guest EOs so there wouldn't really be much confusion at all. Whether you agree with the idea itself is another matter but just pointing that out. If you disagree with an idea, you should really say why in the way it was intended to fit into the system.
Okay, no you haven't, I've just read it wrong although dismissing ideas by lumping them together and brushing them away with 'oh thats confusing' is a bit of a weak argument. Why would it be more confusing? How did you come to that argument?
The lack of events organisers are most likely due to a number of factors rather than just minimums so I don't think it'll make much difference to tinker round with that system too much (although I'll keep arguing that guest EOs are 1 step forward short term, 2 steps back long term):
- Lack of Habbo presence. A more general community issue rather than just events. events, hxl, hxhd, general management and hx members all have a role to play here.
- Lack of furni (room building). Rooms tend to need to look a lot more sophisicated than they used to - lol has anyone seen my event rooms - and it's been mentioned several times and never sorted out properly. Build an events hub where people who aren't that good at room building or don't have the furni to do it good enough can use the events hub.
- Lack of furni (prizes). Shame about the Habbo way changes re: gambling dampening plans for this one but an efficient and effective (the latter seems to be missing in most prize systems suggested so far) prize system to reimburse EOs as much as possible.
There are probably more but it's something to work on, I think.
this reply will cover things that were brought up from my last post, but if i've missed anything let me know.
although i do agree that the guest role has brought in lazy staff, i've changed the system to be able to control their activity better and, like matt said, make sure they're active within their role throughout the month rather than the last few days. i also agree that more effort should be put in to bring in regular staff rather than trying to get people to apply for the guest role and atm i am working on ways to promote the departments to try to bring in regular staff. i won't be scrapping the role right now, although i'm not going to say it'll never happen either as i liked ryan's idea.
although i like the idea of community eos, i don't think they should have their own forum set up for them. i think they can just contact either events management, senior staff or general management either on habbo or the forum and they can add their event to the panel and arrange for an events staff, or senior+ staff to be there during the first 1-2 times they host. it would be just like unofficial events are currently being run, but they'd get more support from habbox as we'll be advertising the events in return too.
if we could sort out a system where we'd give eos more leniency in hosting events but yet make sure they're not in the department and doing nothing, then i'd try it. i know a few managers in the past have scrapped minimums in order to keep the low amount of staff they had since they weren't meeting minimums and they'd end up being fired and they were just losing staff like crazy. i'm gonna give this a think and see what i can sort out.
habbo presense is something i'm currently working on and something i completely agree is lacking.
pre-made rooms is something that matt and i have spoken about and i know people used it when lewis made some. planning on having a generic hosting room and possibly have some wired games set-up too since EOs tend to stick to their comfort zone when hosting because they don't know how to set up wired games. we have some wired tutorials in the forums too to try help this and i'm working on having more made.
i'm trying to think of a way to fund departments but without me being credits myself and giving them out it's hard to think of something since the no ambling policy is now in place.