*DEBATE* Should Muslim women be allowed to wear veils that show just their eyes?

[HELENizSEXYaye?]

We are not talking about illegal immigrants in your country. This is just about Muslims who live in Britain in general. They could be third generation British and still wear the Hijabs. You think only you should have freedom and they shouldn't in your country?

I never said they were illegal?
Well the third generation muslims should have to accept that because their granparents moved to the UK, they have to live like normal people in the UK.
If they don't like it, leave.
No I don't think they shouldn't have any freedom, but they have too much right now.

Still think that freedom is one of the things that people leave their Muslim countries for and they should get the freedom to wear Hijabs.

I don't see why they should be allowed to leave their countries and try to turn this one into a Muslim country. If we moved there, we would have to live like Muslims, so why is it different for them?

The reason I compared the veil to the bombing is because the people who enforce strong rules in the Muslim countries are not the one who wear the Hijabs in Britain. The people who bomb buildings are not the ones we would bomb if we bombed back innocent people in Muslim countries.

Bombing has nothing to do with any of this?

You think the veils are impractical but you don't see it from their point of view. They think it is liberating and feel naked with out them. Muslims are not cited for wearing veils when kids are for wearing hoodies because the Muslims are doing it for religious and reasons that actually mean something to them. Most kids are asked to take off their hoodies because they have headphones underneath and are showing disrespect by listening to music when being talked to.

They would get used to it, and it isn't just impractical from my point of veiw, it's a fact.
I think it's just as disrespectful to have your face covered when talking to someone as having music playing, the person you're talking to can't see your reactions to what they're saying.

I said it is not a big deal to the people who don't wear them. It is a big deal to them so i don't see why they need to take them off. They feel 10X more passionate about this issue then we do so I don't think we should make them not wear veils because we feel we cant see their facial expressions. They complain about racism because people are racist to them. The country isn't changed to suit them. It would be changed if a new law was made. The country has freedoms and that is why they go there.

How do you know how passionate non-Muslims feel about the issue?
I don't think they should be allowed to wear veils, for more reasons than not just being able to see their facial expressions. People are racist to them, because of the way they seperate themselves. If they didn't wear veils, and intergrated more, i don't think there would be as much racism. People wouldn't instantly brand them as a muslim, since they wouldn't be wearing a veil. And they do cry racism over the slightest little thing.
They TRY to change the country to suit them, and no it wouldn't be changed if the law was made, the law would be trying to keep the country the way it is, a Christian country. It's not a muslim country, and never will be, so why do muslims act like it is?

[BL!NKEY]

I never said they were illegal?
Well the third generation muslims should have to accept that because their granparents moved to the UK, they have to live like normal people in the UK.
If they don't like it, leave.
No I don't think they shouldn't have any freedom, but they have too much right now.

Normal for them is wearing veils. If they have lived their whole life with veils is is weird and uncomfortable for them to just take them off. You dont think the Muslims should be treated as well as the British in the UK? Are they less of a human then the White Christians?

I don't see why they should be allowed to leave their countries and try to turn this one into a Muslim country. If we moved there, we would have to live like Muslims, so why is it different for them?

I will say this again. They come from a bad place with little freedoms and they go to the UK because they will have freedoms. It is not their fault that they are born under a country which doesnt give them freedoms. The UK is far from being a Muslim country.

Bombing has nothing to do with any of this?

I was using it as an example. I will give you a different example that might be easier to understand. If someone has abusive parents and finally seperates from them and lives by themselfs. It is not fair to abuse them because they come from an abusive background. If one country nukes another it is not justifiable to nuke the country back.

They would get used to it, and it isn't just impractical from my point of veiw, it's a fact.
I think it's just as disrespectful to have your face covered when talking to someone as having music playing, the person you're talking to can't see your reactions to what they're saying.

If you saw a Muslim on the street and were talking to them and asked if they could take off their Hijab so you could see their facial expressions and they said no, because they believe taking it off is demeaning to them and they feel like an object in the eyes of society. Would you still insist that they take it off? Does it really mean that much? I think they feel more strongly about it then we do.

How do you know how passionate non-Muslims feel about the issue?
I don't think they should be allowed to wear veils, for more reasons than not just being able to see their facial expressions. People are racist to them, because of the way they seperate themselves. If they didn't wear veils, and intergrated more, i don't think there would be as much racism. People wouldn't instantly brand them as a muslim, since they wouldn't be wearing a veil. And they do cry racism over the slightest little thing.
They TRY to change the country to suit them, and no it wouldn't be changed if the law was made, the law would be trying to keep the country the way it is, a Christian country. It's not a muslim country, and never will be, so why do muslims act like it is?

So you think it is justifiable to make racist remarks to them because they seperate themselves from society? I think they are proud to be Muslims. If you dont think the Muslims should be able to live in the country because it is a Christian country then that is not right. The Muslims are not wearing the veils so they can stick it to the Christian man. They just dont want to be seen as a sexual object in the eyes of society.

[Herman]

First of all, your being immatture saying christians haved kill more people throughout history...

I wasn't trying to flame christians, I was just opposing to the fact that you said muslims kill christians all the time.

and like I said in the post you quoted 'I would not mind'

Do you just read one line then reply?

Maybe you wouldn't mind, yes, but what about other christians? I was talking about christians in general, and not just you. If christians came to a muslim country and found out they weren't allowed to wear crosses I believe they would find it racism aswell.

[entor M]

The UK probably will stay a christian country for a long time, something like 70% of the population class themselves as christian.

The muslim religion is the fastest growing in the uk. The Christan religion has droped by a 1/3 in just the last few years "/

Aithiests will probably outnumber both within a few decades though "/

I somehow doubt christians have killed more people in history, and history isn't important, it's now that is, and i don't see christians blowing themselves up?

LMAO. Yea, the whitch burnings, crusades, responcibilty for more wars than every other religion and contary put together... Christains have killed ALOT of people.
Plus i take it you ignore the christans who go firebomb abortion clinics then?

And i doubt any christian would really mind all that much if someone asked them to take off their cross, whereas muslims kick up hell at the suggestion of removing their veil, screaming racism, as always.

IM not sure your aware of this but muslim is a religion... not a race...

Also a cross carrys little signifcants, its more like asking a nun to take of there habit, Some do, and choose to, others would take offence to the idea.
they claim racism at every little thing and it's stupid.

And I think Britain is too good to people like muslims, if we moved to a muslim country, we would be expected to life the way they do, and it should be the same here.
if they're going to come into this country and claim benefits and stuff, they should have to live our way of life.

The british way of life is one of freedom, aka your free to choose how to live, if we take your advice your just turning us in to one of those contarys...

well there shouldn't be so much freedom here, that's why this country has too many immigrants, and gives out millions in benefits.

My ignoromiter just exsploded... immigrants account for around 1.6 billion to our echomeny, and make up the majorty of the staff in the hevely staff lacking NHS...
Out of all immigrants in britain i belive the number on benifits is only in double figures....

there should be conditions to allow someone to stay in a country, and i think one of them should be that they should follow the way of life that is normal in the country.

There are conditions, and the lifestyle thats normal here is the free one. If YOU want to inforce your own idea of how this contary should be, you can go **** off and try and start your own on some remote island. Otheriwize, like everyone else, accept people are free to live how they want to live. Thats why we call it a FREE contarty...

it is completely stupid to compare asking someone to take off a veil, to bombing a country. All they're being asked to do, is take off an item of clothing. The veils are impractical, they make it hard for them to see, people can't see their expressions, and they could be hiding anything in them, it isn't fair that they get away with wearing one when some places won't let kids wearing hoodies in.

Hoodies arnt a religion, and people are allowed to ware them. feel free to Put a paper bag over your head if you feel gellusos of the anominty...
[quote]And you're saying the veil isn't a serious issue, so why is it such a big deal to ask them to take it off???[/quotes]
Its a big deal that your challneging peoples freedom. If there not allowed to do that, more aless every right and thing this contary stands for is at risk...

They complain about racism all the time but get more special treatment than any other religion? It's not their country, so why should it be changed to suit them. If they don't like the way it is, they shouldn't come.
end off

Muslim is a bloody religion NOT a race. I may as well tell you to go back to your contary (what ever ones christans all come from) since this aint it.

Nixt (Forum Moderator) Please be careful not to be rude while constructing arguments.

[HELENizSEXYaye?]

Muslim is a bloody religion NOT a race. I may as well tell you to go back to your contary (what ever ones christans all come from) since this aint it.

I'm not a christian. I hate christianity.

[FlyingJesus]

Those who come to this country to escape from somewhere not as "free" as this one should not expect us to adapt just for them. Yes, England is different to Saudi and the countries around it, but we shouldn't just roll over and allow our own customs to be changed by people who are (as I said in a previous post) guests in our country.

I personally have nothing against people wearing veils and such, but I back the idea of not having them allowed in public places simply for security reasons. If I started wearing the whole robe and veil thing, I could pass as a Muslim woman simply because no-one could see that I was anything different, and in this way criminals could commit many crimes and have it all blamed on Islam.

If Muslims want to be in a country that is safe, they must accept certain restrictions just like we do. A totally free country would be anarchistic, with no laws and no safety whatsoever, for anyone to expect that is ludicrous.

I for one follow the UKIP ideas on immigration, as I do not believe that Britain should be allowed to be made into a station of asylum. Freedom and rights have gone too far.

[^.^]

The reasons the Muslims move out of their countries is usually because of the freedoms in Britain and the USA. They see the freedoms and want to enjoy them too.

I don't think it is a big enough that they are wearing the veils. I think talking on a cell phone while eating breakfast and driving is more hazardous then wearing a veil.

They want to wear the veil and think it is more liberating to them. They feel if they show all of their skin they are just an object in the eyes of men. If they don't show their body then their body is more secrete and kept for the family.

You wouldn't tell an old lady to walk around the street in a short skirt and a see through top. It is embarrassing to them because they have different morals and traditions. The same with a Muslim women wearing a Hijab. They feel that they need to because of their traditions and morals.

If it was something really serious like if they were at court and needed to speak clearly they should take off their Hijab, but in normal life I don't see a need to make them do anything.

Those of you saying that they make you take off your crosses in Muslim countries so they should take their hijab off in your country are almost as people who say because the muslims flew planes into buildings with innocent people, we should purposely bomb innocent people in their countries.

more like they come over to britain and USA and try ruining our freedoms we had a debate today about the veil in public state school's for my english orals and i was "racist" just for being against it.

[MrBlown]

Muslim countries make you follow their customs?
so why should it be different for them.

If muslim countries make you not wear a cross or whatever it is a problem with their society, not ours.

MrBlown

[^.^]

no their just hippocrites if they dont like it they can go elsewhere.

[Caution]

It's not socially acceptable i would say. If your in an Official building or a Government building they should take it off. They should wear it in their own time.
Anyway it doesn't say in the Koran(Their bible) that they have to wear them.