9/11 Conspiracies - What do you think happened? - [Closes 13/05/07]

[RedStratocas]

1. Most Of The JetFuel Exploded OUTSIDE Of The Tower
2. 1/18'th Of The Structural Integrity Was Damaged
3. A Plane Flew Into The Empire State Building In 1977, Is That Building Still Intact? YES.

It was still burning on the inside? And 1/18th? Show some reliable source that says that. Ive seen the video... its a pretty big hole. And the Empire State Building was built when the strength of steel was still questioned, so it was built very layered and sturdy, an excessive amount. In a sense, construction has gone backwards since then. And the plane was much much smaller. You cant even compare a 747 with the plane that crashed into the Empire State Building.

American Airlines Stocks Were Sold 11 Fold BEFORE The Crash, Thats A Lot, Also American Airlines Is Worth Less Than 3.4Bn $

Wasent part of the conspiracy theory that only a select few people knew about it? Most airlines have public stock, so that would mean the PUBLIC would have to know about the attacks beforehand and sell their stocks. So youre contradicting yourself. Stocks, especially Airline stocks which can be unpredictable, go up and down all the time.

Osama Was Visited In Hospital By CIA Agents 2 Days Before

Ive only seen one artical that says this, and it seems pretty bogus to me. It had no sources. Find me somthing reliable.

Osama
Hiding
Iraq

When was he hiding in Iraq? He was in Afghanistan. Maybe you dont make spelling mistakes [congrats by the way, we're all impressed. Youre really making entor look like a moron who doesnt know what he's talking about because you learned your ABC's, great job] but your facts arent very good.

He Purchased A Lease And Then Took Out Insurance 2 Days Before The Crash

Well, that could be a point. Except for the fact that he could have made far, far more money keeping the WTC in business than what he got in insurance.

The Fuel Exploded Outside Of The Building

Why is everyone caught up on jet fuel? Other things can knock buildings down, like giant tubes of steel going hundreds of miles an hour.

And It Looked VERY Much Like One

Not really...

That Is NOT A Part Of Aircraft Fuselage It Is From SOMETHING ELSE! A 5 Ton Engine Can Break Concrete, I Assure You.

You tell me whats it from then?

Please Learn To Spell?

P.S. Yes I The Shift Key.

Youre really so great for telling him to learn to spell. Because that makes his point so much less valid, doesnt it? You really know how to argue, taking cheap shots.

[Mentor]

1. Most Of The JetFuel Exploded OUTSIDE Of The Tower
2. 1/18'th Of The Structural Integrity Was Damaged
3. A Plane Flew Into The Empire State Building In 1977, Is That Building Still Intact? YES.

And i take it, you went inside the building after it was hit, and were able to test the structual integrity of the building? or is that just comeing out your ****?
Plus yes, a plane that was less than half the size, flew at less than half the speed and impacted at relativly near the top of what, to be frank was probably a somewhat better designed building. (notice a 400 year old house is fine, where a 10 year old house is falling to bits in many instances)

Thats Rubbish, Why Would They Not Tell Anybody About Demolition,

Becuse there wasnt one? my entire point was it would have been kinda pointless to have one if they did o.0

CCTV Still Shows Us What Happened, In History I Belive It Is Called Visual Evidence

Just like a blurry sploge proves the lockness mosnter.. a blurry sploge wouldnt have proved anything ether way.

American Airlines Stocks Were Sold 11 Fold BEFORE The Crash, Thats A Lot, Also American Airlines Is Worth Less Than 3.4Bn $

Most airlines are owned by international companys, which work on a more global scale, plus ill just quote some ariline news

Also on the merger front: Delta executives, who are resisting the US Airways takeover, told their top creditors that the airline would be worth more than the takeover bid if it's allowed to exit bankruptcy in 2007 as a stand-alone carrier. Delta management estimates the carrier's worth then would be as much as $12 billion, vs. the pending offer of about $8.5 billion.

The airline busness as a whole in the US obviously isnt worth even 3 billion..

Osama Was Visited In Hospital By CIA Agents 2 Days Before

Osama was trained by the CIA and a close friend of bush also before 9/11, the taliban was created by the US to fend of communism from the aria in the cold war. whats your point?

He Purchased A Lease And Then Took Out Insurance 2 Days Before The Crash

6 weeks changed to 2 days? maybe i should go look this up as the stats from your side seem to be changeing o.0

The Fuel Exploded Outside Of The Building

Which pushes a large clump of plane in which direction?

And It Looked VERY Much Like One, And No They Didn't Teleport, They Put Them In When Fire Drills Started Too Take Place.

Before the building was hit? and im sure no one noticed the explosives strapped to all the support structures o.0

That Is NOT A Part Of Aircraft Fuselage It Is From SOMETHING ELSE!

Yes it is... its part of the engine like i said it was..

A 5 Ton Engine Can Break Concrete, I Assure You.

And a rhinos horn is actualy hair? whats you point, reinforced concreate (belive it or not) isnt just a fancy name.

Please Learn To Spell?

Ill go right in to that as soon as you solve your OCD about posting lists of words under the immpression it actualy effects the debate topic

[CrazyCali]

Around 8-8:30 in the morning, 1 airplane came rushing into the first world trade center. We did not have much facts during that first hit untill the 2nd one hit the other trade center. We found out that 4 planes we hi-jacked by some suicide bombers from Iraq. But we were waiting for the other 2 but then the 3rd one was heading towards the white house but a brave Passanger fought his way to guide the plane towards a different direction which lead to the pentagon. The last was teh most bravest one of all. All its passaners fought there way against the suicide bombers and crashed in a field. New york lost over 100,000 people. In my town where I was at when it happen, sent out the national gaurd to get everyone to head to their houses. We got out of school at first period, and everyone who was working was forced to go home. It was a very tradgic day for everyone in the USA.

Not much of a debate but the summary of the story of what happened

[Sammeth.]

I was a big fan, beleiver and follower of Loose Change. I thought its theories were amazing, and its observations were unbeleivable. Then I did some more research into it. After I did do research, I realised what ******** the theories in Loose Change were. Now I do not beleive it was a conspiracy - and that it was done by terrorists - but I think the government had prior knowledge of what was going to happen. I dont know why I think this, its just...instinct I guess. I have nothing to back that up, so dont ask me why. Its just instinct.

However one thing I do find wierd is that no steel structure building had collapsed due to fire ever before. However on 11/9/2001, 3 did. It seems a bit farfetch'd. But I guess there has to be a first for everything

[Mentor]

I was a big fan, beleiver and follower of Loose Change. I thought its theories were amazing, and its observations were unbeleivable. Then I did some more research into it. After I did do research, I realised what ******** the theories in Loose Change were. Now I do not beleive it was a conspiracy - and that it was done by terrorists - but I think the government had prior knowledge of what was going to happen. I dont know why I think this, its just...instinct I guess. I have nothing to back that up, so dont ask me why. Its just instinct.

However one thing I do find wierd is that no steel structure building had collapsed due to fire ever before. However on 11/9/2001, 3 did. It seems a bit farfetch'd. But I guess there has to be a first for everything

how many buildings that tall ever had 757 stuck in the side of them, its not particularly normal circumstances or an every day occurrence. so it doesnt really seem that unlikely.

[Seatherny]

My reply in blue. And Dark Red, please quote properly. I quoted something mentor said, and you made it look like I said it.

Is insulting people the only way you know how to argue? That does nothing for your arguement. And he didnt mean the same size as in its height, he meant as in across, which is almost accurate. Congradulations on skewing his words, you'll make a great journalist.

You can read minds now?


Again with the insults? Youre wonderful really. He said the wrong name of the building, obviously THAT person doesnt know what he's talking about.

Pretty obvious he meant WT7

They released a tape straight from the pentagon of the attack actually.

I am on about showing us the tape which showed the plane hitting the pentagon.

Then how come they cant murder the people coming out with these conspiracies then?

It would be more obvious. You speak against the goverment, and you die? Gosh, people on this forum are well clever >.>


Actually it made perfect sense. We invaded Iraq, not Afghanistan, where Osama is hiding. Thats why we havent found him, because we havent really been looking.

Rofl!!! America did invade Afganistan, and yes, they are looking.

Because insurance gets renewed. Insurance only lasts a certain amount of time, then you have to buy it again, it just happened to run out a few months before. And it wasent insured against specifically plane crashes, it was insured for terrorism. For obvious reasons, seeing as it was attacked before.

And how would you know it ran out a few months before 9/11?

Doesnt mean it wont either. Mind giving us some proof that it shouldnt have fallen?

A builiding burnt for 24 hours and that DIDNT collapse.

Who says they're bombs? When I saw the video of the supposed "bombs" before the tower fell, they were tiny little lights that could have been anything.

Yes, massive blast comming out of the building are just at iny flash of light. O, its probably just someone throwing a torch out of the window.


It dug into the ground a tad.

I didnt say it, mentor did. Quote properl please.

Were was the hole made by the 2 engines? The pane can't have fully burnt.

Says who?

A plane goes right into the pentagon, so that means the engines did aswell. Do you have a brain?

Read the rest of my post?

ksoz is poorly fighting this debate, it is no place for insults, its a place for discussion and mature arguement.

And, its not your job to tell me that I am breaking the rules, its the moderators. You post is pointless and according to the rules, you should be infractioned. Well done on pointless posting.

No, i can just do math. Match up a 124 ft 10 in wingspan over the top of a 208 foot building suppored by a central core thats only 88 feet wide. Then reask the question how you espect that to hold up a building when a plains ripped half of it out. (im talking widths not hieght obviously)

Make that clear in your post then. "if you match the size of the planes up with the towers the plane's are almost the same size," We cant read minds you know.

WTC 7 is not WTC 9, and WTC7 was hit by shratanal from the orignal blast, although reportedly collapsed due to the diesel fuel reservoirs for backup power generators explodeing o.0

Also what does that have to do with the 2 towers collapsing, and what use would there be performing a controled demolition on an undamaged building that was poseing no risk from collapsing sideways anyway o.0


It would be impounded as evedence if there was any invstigation o.0 Plus its CCTV? have you ever watched a CCTV camra or seen CCTV footage? its generaly pretty crap.
Plus 500mph is pretty fast for somthing thats only 47 meters long, plus width and height are slighly differnt things o.0

My dad's work has around 15 CCTV's. I have seen them all. It depends how much money you are willing to spend on them. You can get really good quality ones. Not all of them are crap black and white ones.

Company's dont get the insurance money, the plane industry is worth alot more than the insurance on the twin towers was, scareing people of flying, massivly reduceing there profits is a pretty stupid business practice.

Gold under the twin towers.

Well it did, Asarma = hideing
instead of looking, America go invade iraq.
You see problem

You ever read the news? Or do you have a social life? If you did, you would know that America attacked Afganistan.

the question imasking to stated it was brought when they "Bought The Lease 6 Weeks Earlier", you cant insure a building you dont own to my knowlage.


Buildings stay up better without half the support structure being blown apart by explodeing fule, and without the greater part of a plain haveing wacked threw em.


Did the army teliport in to put bombs on all the floors? controled demolitions are pretty distinctive.

If you watched Loose Change like you said you did, and you read my first post in this debate, you would realise they did a lot of drills.

there werent any, they didnt get threw, reinforced concrete is pretty tough stuff, where it smashed in to a pillar and the bits of it splayed over the floor were pretty obvious though.


Heres part of one.

Osama was trained by the CIA and a close friend of bush also before 9/11, the taliban was created by the US to fend of communism from the aria in the cold war. whats your point?

Close friend of Bush? Just when I thought you couldnt get stupider. Oasma's brother is a good friend with Bush, NOT Osama.



Before the building was hit? and im sure no one noticed the explosives strapped to all the support structures o.0

It was a big building, easy to hide things.

After the first plane was hit, the goverment didnt let anyone out of the second building.

Pretty stupid really.

[FlyingJesus]

You should really change your sig, it makes you not only look stupid, but also shows that you have no debate skills other than OMG UR WEL FICK.

Also, the one reason that really shows to me that this wasn't a government incident is that no-one from the government has claimed that it was. You can go on about how there were "minimal numbers" who knew what was happening (by the way, if only a handful know, how do you know that?) and how they wouldn't speak up for fear of death, but that's not right at all. People throughout history have spoken out "for the good of the people" knowing full well that they'd be killed for it, politicians as well as civilians. There's simply no logic to any of the conspiracy argument.

Gold under the towers? I'm sure the wars and costs of losing the towers and offices in them meant that it would be pointless trying to pull this off to get at a bit of shiny metal. Also take note of the effort involved, I repeat that there is no logic to it.

Your CCTV argument is flawed also. It was stated earlier that the CCTV footage was nicked from a petrol garage or something? They aren't likely to have top quality cameras at such a place, so forget any theories about those tapes showing the exact events.

A building may well have burned for 24 hours without collapsing, but that doesn't mean all buildings can do it. That's like saying Mike Tyson can take a brick to the face without getting knocked out, therefore Steven Hawking could do the same.

The insurance on WTC did run out (or was going to) around the time of 9/11, I'm sure there are plenty of documents around to show it as you do need a lot of paperwork in insurance.

Blasts coming out of a building with a flash of light... hmm, yeah it must be bombs, because y'know, FIRE doesn't do that does it?

On a side note, why do you keep talking about mind reading? It's quite obvious that a plane won't be the same HEIGHT as the WTC, therefore you could use logic (if you had any, which I've already proved you don't) to realise that he meant WIDTH.

[RedStratocas]

You can read minds now?

Yes actually. I know that you know that you're losing this argument, because when people start to lose arguments, they start to pull out cheap shots like "do you have a brain?" to make themselves seem smarter to make up for the fact that their argument is flawed

Pretty obvious he meant WT7

I know how eye-catching you are with misspellings, why cant you be with missed facts?

It would be more obvious. You speak against the goverment, and you die? Gosh, people on this forum are well clever >.>

How would murdering people who were involved be any less obvious? The government could have killed the makers of Loose Change and all those guys a day within the time they put it up on the internet, and taken it down within minutes. Before it got out of hand, and no one would have known.

Rofl!!! America did invade Afganistan, and yes, they are looking.

You should get your words right. We never INVADED Afghanistan. We have people stationed there, but not nearly as many as we should, and we dont really know where to look. We INVADED Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with it. Which brings another point; if the government was behind all this because they wanted to invade Iraq, why wouldnt they just say all the terrorists were from Iraq instead of Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan?

And how would you know it ran out a few months before 9/11?

You said he renewed it right? Thats a pretty good sign that it was about to run out

Doesnt mean it wont either. Mind giving us some proof that it shouldnt have fallen?

Did it have a hole where a 747 crashed into it and jet fuel?

Yes, massive blast coming out of the building are just at iny flash of light. O, its probably just someone throwing a torch out of the window.

When the towers were falling, those little "explosions" were just pressure from the building down below. They were only a few floors away from the rest of the building falling. And also, there were 2 videos of "explosions", 1 before the tower fell which were these tiny little lights that could have been anything, and the one when they were falling. Why werent the explosions when they were falling fire? Bomb explosions make dark smoke, these ones did pretty much nothing. They were just pressure.

A plane goes right into the pentagon, so that means the engines did aswell. Do you have a brain?

What does that have to do with them burning?

[Browney]

Just when I thought you couldnt get stupider.

Shot yourself in the foot there really.

Well, personally I do think it was terrorism. Even though the towers seemed an odd target to his when there are iconic buildings and structures in New York that wouldv'e surely been a huge propaganda bonus. "Empire state bulding in rubble" or "Statue of Liberty demolished!" Although it might not have killed as many people.

[FlyingJesus]

Shot yourself in the foot there really.

Well, personally I do think it was terrorism. Even though the towers seemed an odd target to his when there are iconic buildings and structures in New York that wouldv'e surely been a huge propaganda bonus. "Empire state bulding in rubble" or "Statue of Liberty demolished!" Although it might not have killed as many people.

A good point about "iconic" structures, but I think WTC was targeted for the economic destruction. Going for the Statue of Liberty would certainly get a lot of people upset though :8