vegetarian?

[Ezzie.]

no, sorry - i belive his argument was valid. unless you point out his flaws.

I think I did? :rolleyes: Also i'd mention that gomme's opinions aren't flawed as they are opinions, but his opinions of vegetarians I find flawed (that made no sense but i'm tired -.-)

Also been looking up some reports about vegetarianism on some websites (no I don't buy into all of the peta stuff- I like to not blindly follow something- which some vegetarians/supporters of meat do)

Seems to show that vegetarianism (well balanced of-course) can improve health because of the low saturated fats, whilst meat gives much nutrients as I've said there are cons such as the saturated fats/too much clogs arteries etc, such as the same as some vegetables that have been sprayed with pestisides etc.

Here's a quote from the american dietry association on their report on vegetarianism=

Vegetarian diets low in fat or saturated fat have been used successfully as part of comprehensive health programs to reverse severe coronary artery disease (3,4). Vegetarian diets offer disease protection benefits because of their lower saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein content and often higher concentration of folate (which reduces serum homocysteine levels) (5), antioxidants such as vitamins C and E, carotenoids, and phytochemicals (6). Not only is mortality from coronary artery disease lower in vegetarians than in nonvegetarians (7), but vegetarian diets have also been successful in arresting coronary artery disease (8,9). Total serum cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels are usually lower in vegetarians, but high-density lipoprotein cholesterol and triglyceride levels vary depending on the type of vegetarian diet followed (10).

Vegetarians tend to have a lower incidence of hypertension than nonvegetarians (11). This effect appears to be independent of both body weight and sodium intake. Type 2 diabetes mellitus is much less likely to be a cause of death in vegetarians than nonvegetarians, perhaps because of their higher intake of complex carbohydrates and lower body mass index (12).

Incidence of lung and colorectal cancer is lower in vegetarians than in nonvegetarians (2,13). Reduced colorectal cancer risk is associated with increased consumption of fiber, vegetables, and fruit (14,15). The environment of the colon differs notably in vegetarians compared with nonvegetarians in ways that could favorably affect colon cancer risk (16,17). Lower breast cancer rates have not been observed in Western vegetarians, but cross-cultural data indicate that breast cancer rates are lower in populations that consume plant-based diets (18). The lower estrogen levels in vegetarian women may be protective (19).

A well-planned vegetarian diet may be useful in the prevention and treatment of renal disease. Studies using human being and animal models suggest that some plant proteins may increase survival rates and decrease proteinuria, glomerular filtration rate, renal blood flow, and histologic renal damage compared with a nonvegetarian diet (20,21).

[GommeInc]

[COLOR=Black][B]There is so many flawed points in that argument I really can't be bothered to pick it apart as you clearly are bias and wont ever change your view- and before you say- no i'm not bias, I know meat carries nutrients but there's also cons to it too. Same as vegetables, as I've said before I seriously don't give a **** if you want to eat meat or not, but anytime someone states their views you seem to want to attack them, is this possibly a subconscious reaction to your denial?

So do you? So why can't I? And you can't name any flaws because you simply don't know any and you are pretty much hypocritcal in your argument, saying I am biased when you are very biased in your attitude towards meat. I eat meat and vegetables, fruit and so forth, and I know what both are like, why youa re just taking it from pure hate towards meat eating and websites and articles, which aren't 100% correct.

Vegetables and fruit contain alot of products that are not as digested as meat in the human body. FACT. Most parts of meat are nutrients and therefore used by the body. FACT. You need to consume more vegetables to reach the same level as nutrients as meat, therefore you either eat more making yourself larger and produce alot more waste or eat a regular amount and take in half the nutrients. FACT.

Your article is aload of hoo-har which you quoted from the internet. As I stated, meat isn't fatty unless you cover it in fat "/ I agree that living off an all meat diet is a bit strange and not healthy, but living off a diet of meat, vegetables and fruit is, and living off a diet of just vegetables and fruit isn't as healthy as a diet with meat, because you don't have as much nutrients as meat.

You seem to be in denial you vegetarian biased fool. Wake up and smell the bacon. Meat can be eaten by humans and IS good for you. There are pros and cons in everything, even vegetarianism. Low immune is one of them and stomach problems, like someone in the thread has said.

[Ezzie.]

So do you? So why can't I? And you can't name any flaws because you simply don't know any and you are pretty much hypocritcal in your argument, saying I am biased when you are very biased in your attitude towards meat. I eat meat and vegetables, fruit and so forth, and I know what both are like, why youa re just taking it from pure hate towards meat eating and websites and articles, which aren't 100% correct.

I used to eat meat, I have nothing against it- my familly eat meat= flawed argument there.

Websites and articles which aren't 100% correct? You're saying that the leading health association in America is wrong?

Vegetables and fruit contain alot of products that are not as digested as meat in the human body. FACT.

That makes no sense. FACT

Most parts of meat are nutrients and therefore used by the body. FACT.

Do you eat your meat raw? It loses alot of it's nutrients when it's cooked- FLAWED

You need to consume more vegetables to reach the same level as nutrients as meat, therefore you either eat more making yourself larger and produce alot more waste or eat a regular amount and take in half the nutrients. FACT.

That is so flawed. In vegetables there isn't saturated fats or cholesterol (or barely any), secondly can I ask why obescity is a-lot lower in vegetarians than meat eaters?
Your argument is opinion and alas is bias, yet I seem to re-call you calling me bias? :rolleyes::rolleyes: Flawed.

Your article is aload of hoo-har which you quoted from the internet. As I stated, meat isn't fatty unless you cover it in fat "/ I agree that living off an all meat diet is a bit strange and not healthy, but living off a diet of meat, vegetables and fruit is, and living off a diet of just vegetables and fruit isn't as healthy as a diet with meat, because you don't have as much nutrients as meat.

Completely disregarded this part as you called the leading health association "hoo-har" =lol.:rolleyes:

You seem to be in denial you vegetarian biased fool. Wake up and smell the bacon. Meat can be eaten by humans and IS good for you. There are pros and cons in everything, even vegetarianism. Low immune is one of them and stomach problems, like someone in the thread has said.

Low immunity? It's recommended to eat lots of fruit and vegetables to stay healthy and keep your immunity in check..:rolleyes:

Meat can be eaten indeed, but I see it as a survival mechanism from when vegetation was scarce- do you know how long it takes to digest meat?

Stomach problems? Food that is EASIER to digest gives stomach problems? *looks at my stomach* hmm..

And to think, a nice slab of meat that takes longer to digest- clogs up your colon and arteries is sure yum right?

Also thanks for calling me a "fool", I also liked your pun "wake up and smell the bacon", petty insults and puns wont win an argument me dear.

[GommeInc]

Websites and articles which aren't 100% correct? You're saying that the leading health association in America is wrong?

It's American? Besides, there are hundreds of websites saying eating meat and vegetables is healthier than just meat alone.

That makes no sense. FACT.

You obviously can't read. FACT .There are alot of waste materials in vegetables, which are just ejected from the body and not used. There is a smaller amount of nutrients in vegetables than there are in meat as a whole, therefore, more for your body to take in and less to throw out.

Do you eat your meat raw? It loses alot of it's nutrients when it's cooked- FLAWED

What you said has nothing to do with my argument. Also, you can eat beef raw, chicken slightly raw and pork slightly raw. My argument is that meat as a whole has more nutrients in, not that cooking meat holds the same/more nutrients. Also, vegetables lose nutrients when cooked, but more people don't mind eating vegetables raw than they would some meat.

That is so flawed. In vegetables there isn't saturated fats or cholesterol (or barely any), secondly can I ask why obescity is a-lot lower in vegetarians than meat eaters?

I never said anything about the cooking habits of the 21st Century? Meat doesn't carry alot of fat when cooked in the right oils. So again, your criticism doesn't go with my argument? Meat carries more nutrients than vegetables when cooked properly, as in, little oil (like a tea spoon of olive oil). You can cook it in pretty much anything. Also, I think people would agree that they prefer flavour over health, especially when it is trivial amounts of fat which can keep you going. What's wrong with fat anyway? You do realise you need a bit of fat in with your diet?

Secondly, loads of people seem to have a habit of soaking meat in litres of oil, thinking it is nicer. I prefer small amounts so that the flavour is a bit natural, and it is a bit healthier too.

Your argument is opinion and alas is bias, yet I seem to re-call you calling me bias? :rolleyes::rolleyes: Flawed.

So are you? Saying you are healthier without meat and so on. I am working off fact and personal opinion, and what people prefer, flavour etc.

I think we should agree on one thing, that the whole vegetarians vs. meat and vegetable eaters argument is an argument which goes in one big circle, with no real answer.

Completely disregarded this part as you called the leading health association "hoo-har" =lol.:rolleyes:

Because they arguing about fat in meat, which is aload of rubbish. They are arguing about how the meat is cooked, not the meat itself "/

Low immunity? It's recommended to eat lots of fruit and vegetables to stay healthy and keep your immunity in check..:rolleyes:

So why do vegetarians get sick so easily? Looking at my friends, and a few other I know, they get sick extremely easily, while my friends who eat meat, don't get as sick as easily. My friend who uses this forum, Mentor, barely eats any vegetables and I don't even think he eats fruit, he is still alive and barely gets sick?

Meat can be eaten indeed, but I see it as a survival mechanism from when vegetation was scarce- do you know how long it takes to digest meat?

Longer, because the body uses more of the nutrients from it. Vegetables digest quicker, because only a small amount is used by the body. Why?

Stomach problems? Food that is EASIER to digest gives stomach problems? *looks at my stomach* hmm..

It's easy to digest, because it goes straight through you :rolleyes: And the stomach problems could be caused by the lack of digestion or the lack of healthy nutrients which you seem to believe and dis-believe to exist in meat.

And to think, a nice slab of meat that takes longer to digest- clogs up your colon and arteries is sure yum right?

As stated, it only takes longer to digest because your body uses more of it, if your body doesn't use most of it, then what is your feeble excuse for meat not taking long to digest? And you are over-exaggerating alot... I think you're missing the points I have said, it is what you have cooked the meat in, which causes the problems. Meat contains very little, and that small amount of fat isn't bad for you either, because fat is something your body needs "/

Also thanks for calling me a "fool", I also liked your pun "wake up and smell the bacon", petty insults and puns wont win an argument me dear.

Neither does your lack of knowledge on the bodies digestion, m'dear.

[Ezzie.]

It's American? Besides, there are hundreds of websites saying eating meat and vegetables is healthier than just meat alone.

So you're being racist now? Charming.

You obviously can't read. FACT .There are alot of waste materials in vegetables, which are just ejected from the body and not used. There is a smaller amount of nutrients in vegetables than there are in meat as a whole, therefore, more for your body to take in and less to throw out.

Ahh Yeap, all the vitamins and minerals just get ejected along with the food used? Where the hell do you get this stuff :S

What you said has nothing to do with my argument. Also, you can eat beef raw, chicken slightly raw and pork slightly raw. My argument is that meat as a whole has more nutrients in, not that cooking meat holds the same/more nutrients. Also, vegetables lose nutrients when cooked, but more people don't mind eating vegetables raw than they would some meat.

Steamed vegetables/raw vegetables= even more nutrients=yup.
Eating meat raw can actually make you ill, depending on a few factors.

I never said anything about the cooking habits of the 21st Century? Meat doesn't carry alot of fat when cooked in the right oils. So again, your criticism doesn't go with my argument? Meat carries more nutrients than vegetables when cooked properly, as in, little oil (like a tea spoon of olive oil). You can cook it in pretty much anything. Also, I think people would agree that they prefer flavour over health, especially when it is trivial amounts of fat which can keep you going. What's wrong with fat anyway? You do realise you need a bit of fat in with your diet?

Taste over health? You see this is where i've lost any respect for you, what if chemical waste "tasted nice" would you drink that too?
The right type of fats are good, last I heard saturated fats weren't...

Secondly, loads of people seem to have a habit of soaking meat in litres of oil, thinking it is nicer. I prefer small amounts so that the flavour is a bit natural, and it is a bit healthier too.

So are you? Saying you are healthier without meat and so on. I am working off fact and personal opinion, and what people prefer, flavour etc.

I am healthier not eating meat? It's a fact

I think we should agree on one thing, that the whole vegetarians vs. meat and vegetable eaters argument is an argument which goes in one big circle, with no real answer.

What i've said from the start... I don't exactly care if you eat meat or not, it's just when you start attacking MY opinions on life that I defend myself.

Because they arguing about fat in meat, which is aload of rubbish. They are arguing about how the meat is cooked, not the meat itself "/


So why do vegetarians get sick so easily? Looking at my friends, and a few other I know, they get sick extremely easily, while my friends who eat meat, don't get as sick as easily. My friend who uses this forum, Mentor, barely eats any vegetables and I don't even think he eats fruit, he is still alive and barely gets sick?

Mentor is like 17 or 18? Just because he's "not getting sick now" doesn't mean a lack of vegetables and fruit could prove difficulties in later life.

"why do vegetarians get sick so easily"- this is personal opinion, or the person who is claiming to be a vegetarian isn't eating a healthy balanced diet.

Longer, because the body uses more of the nutrients from it. Vegetables digest quicker, because only a small amount is used by the body. Why?

No, you're wrong there: vegetables can be broken down quickly whereas meat which is incredibly dense (not nutrients dense before you play that card) takes ages to be broken down by the acids in your stomach.

It's easy to digest, because it goes straight through you :rolleyes: And the stomach problems could be caused by the lack of digestion or the lack of healthy nutrients which you seem to believe and dis-believe to exist in meat.

read above /\

As stated, it only takes longer to digest because your body uses more of it, if your body doesn't use most of it, then what is your feeble excuse for meat not taking long to digest? And you are over-exaggerating alot... I think you're missing the points I have said, it is what you have cooked the meat in, which causes the problems. Meat contains very little, and that small amount of fat isn't bad for you either, because fat is something your body needs "/

You've repeated yourself about three times now. Read above answers..

Neither does your lack of knowledge on the bodies digestion, m'dear.

Yet you seem to not even understand the simple explanation of denseness=more time to be broken down concept..
Tut tut.

It seems you're not actually arguing with me to accept any thing i've said , your whole underlying principle is "lol meat is bad cos my friends said so!!!"

Whereas I've given solid evidence that leading a vegetarian diet is healthy (read the link I provided from an actual health association)

I see no reason to keep wasting my "energy" (because I don't get enough nutrients- guffaw) on a pointless argument where you're seeming to spout personal opinions instead of providing actual factual evidence. Peace out m'dear.

[GommeInc]

So you're being racist now? Charming.

Who says I was? You could look into more. There are loads of American based dietary websites, most of which are based around aload of hoo-har about fats when meat itself doesn't carry alot, as I keep stating, the fats in meat are good for you. Saturated fats are in the oil, the meat however, has a type of fat which your body uses.

Ahh Yeap, all the vitamins and minerals just get ejected along with the food used? Where the hell do you get this stuff :S

Now this is where you make up crap based on no scientific theory or knowledge. Take celery for example, the string bits are not used and are bad to digest. Take sweetcorn, the skin is hard to digest and what's inside is very minuscule, even in a pan full "/

Steamed vegetables/raw vegetables= even more nutrients=yup.
Eating meat raw can actually make you ill, depending on a few factors.

It depends on the sort of person you are. Obviously not everyones body is built the same so someone can eat raw(er) meat than another person.

Taste over health? You see this is where i've lost any respect for you, what if chemical waste "tasted nice" would you drink that too?
The right type of fats are good, last I heard saturated fats weren't...

You have a boring life... Would you eat dirt if it was good for you? Meat doesn't hold alot of saturated fats, is this one of your made up stories in la-la land? The fats in meat are used in the body for the good reasons.

I am healthier not eating meat? It's a fact

And my cousin who doesn't eat meat is extremely unhealthy and moans about her weight. She doesn't each chocolate but she eats alot of fruit and veg. Fact! Vegetables make people mentally depressed and large.

What i've said from the start... I don't exactly care if you eat meat or not, it's just when you start attacking MY opinions on life that I defend myself.

I dislike the fact that your ideas are strongly opinionated and don't stand on strong foundations that are based on scientific theories, knowledge and experience.

Mentor is like 17 or 18? Just because he's "not getting sick now" doesn't mean a lack of vegetables and fruit could prove difficulties in later life.

So you don't believe in obese children then? And 17-18 years is quite good, all that FAT and lack of nutrients... Sarcasm there

"why do vegetarians get sick so easily"- this is personal opinion, or the person who is claiming to be a vegetarian isn't eating a healthy balanced diet.

Perhaps it is your personal opinion that my facts are personal opinions, because you have nothing solid to defend yourself with? And what is a balanced diet? You seem to think raw/steamed fruit and veg is a diet at the moment. A balanced diet is fruit, veg and meat, because you get good nutrients from all of them.

No, you're wrong there: vegetables can be broken down quickly whereas meat which is incredibly dense (not nutrients dense before you play that card) takes ages to be broken down by the acids in your stomach.

Now you're going against physics aswell as biology! Parts of a vegetable cannot be broken down and come out nearly whole e.g. sweetcorn, celery string etc. You are also making up stuff again, not all meat is dense. Chicken is extremely nutritious and healthy and is broken down reasonably fast. Beef on the other hand takes a while to break down because it is a tough meat, thus dense BUT, the meat is nutritious depending on what sort of cut it is. Braised steak contains 1g of saturated fat in a 3oz steak which is 7% of the recommended intake, not alot is it and in fact, it is good by a well known dietary plan called Weight Watchers "/ Also take into account that it holds 24% of your recommended cholesterol. So are you suggest meat eaters guzzle down tons of the stuff? Why make up such rubbish?

A 3oz braise steak also holds 36% of selenium which is good for you might I add:

"This nutrient is an important part of antioxidant enzymes that protect cells against the effects of free radicals that are produced during normal oxygen metabolism. The body has developed defenses such as antioxidants to control levels of free radicals because they can damage cells and contribute to the development of some chronic diseases. Selenium is also essential for normal functioning of the immune system and thyroid gland."

I make up rubbish do I? Seems not "/ Notice immune system. 36% to help protect you? Not bad...

Oh look, 26% of Niacin:

"Niacin, also known as nicotinic acid or vitamin B3, is a water-soluble vitamin whose derivatives such as NADH, NAD, NAD+, and NADP play essential roles in energy metabolism in the living cell and DNA repair."

Wow, that stuff seems unhealthy doesn't it?

Oh, and 14% of Iron, now that is also good for red blood cells and also 14% of riboflavin, which is pretty much the same as Niacin. The only slight bad thing is the 14% of phosphates which are used in process foods, but this is very low in organic beef.

32% of Zinc, now that's good for healthy muscle tissue and can slow down the chances of getting flu "/

You would have to eat an equivalent of 6 bags of peanuts before reaching the amount in meat.

Seems like I have won that pathetic argument that beef is bad for you. Dense, yes. Unhealthy, no.

You've repeated yourself about three times now. Read above answers..

You can't understand fact, read above. Don't bother saying "But too much of this is bad for you" because 3oz of braised steak is alot and the % is recommended intake.

Yet you seem to not even understand the simple explanation of denseness=more time to be broken down concept..
Tut tut.

This goes regardless to my claim that meat is healthier.

It seems you're not actually arguing with me to accept any thing i've said , your whole underlying principle is "lol meat is bad cos my friends said so!!!"

My friends think meat is bad? Also, I would rather be right than go with your deluded theory that meat is bad. Beef is said to be the unhealthiest meat, yet it has alot of immune boosting nutrients inside plus more "/

Whereas I've given solid evidence that leading a vegetarian diet is healthy (read the link I provided from an actual health association)

And I am using solid proof from Wikipedia and health experts such as weight watchers to go against your pathetic attempts to say meat is bad for you "/

I see no reason to keep wasting my "energy" (because I don't get enough nutrients- guffaw) on a pointless argument where you're seeming to spout personal opinions instead of providing actual factual evidence. Peace out m'dear.

Tata my deluded vegetarian friend who has deluded himself into thinking vegetables are better than meat adn believe that fats exist in meat when I pretty much destroyed that theory with proof that cooked braised steak is incredibly healthy and doesn't have "artery clogging" substances in.

Good bye now, your lack of energy from your vegetables seems to make you tired. Thankfully I had a yummy, energy boosting pasta and beef bolognaise for dinner, and I have much energy in me!

[Browney]

I am healthier not eating meat? It's a fact

Fact: The human body needs the protein and fats obtained in meat. Depriving your body off these essential things cannot in any way be healthy.

[Ezzie.]

Ah man.. *recovers from rolling on the floor laughing* Thanks for giving me a laugh gomme. Too tired to give a quote to quote answer but I'll give you some "facts" about me eating vegetables: I have chronic fatigue syndrome/m.e= ate meat for 2 years of it and felt very bad, although cfs/m.e goes up and down once I started eating vegetables my m.e improved (I've gone back to guitar lessons/can concentrate better doing work etc) and i've been healthier immunity wise- only had one flu in a year.

Can I ask what you think of the enviromental aspects of eating meat also?

My friends think meat is bad? Also, I would rather be right than go with your deluded theory that meat is bad. Beef is said to be the unhealthiest meat, yet it has alot of immune boosting nutrients inside plus more "/

Oh and here you take my words out of context:
I don't believe meat is bad except if taking in excess which is what alot of the western countries are doing- something like 2/3x the amount recommended=thus obescity/heart problems etc.

Plus the whole factory farming: where pigs are sometimes fed their own species either through canabilism or it being mixed with-in their foods which can spread disease such as mad cow/bird flu/e-coli etc.


I respect your opinions to eat meat (obviously you have no respect for others): I just think the world would be alot better if we didn't eat meat OR didn't eat it at the amount we do now- it'd reduce water pollution from the livestock/global warming from the pollution from mainly sheep/cows, obescity, e-coli, clogged colon, etc etc.

Also you keep contradicting yourself: you keep saying that vegetarians are sickly and weak, then you go on to say that they get fat easier... ^_^

Anyway, I was going to reply but your replies were so funny I thought I should commend you on giving me a laugh.

Fact: The human body needs the protein and fats obtained in meat. Depriving your body off these essential things cannot in any way be healthy.

You do know you can just get as many proteins from vegetables right? Also vegetables are lower in saturated fats (way lower) and high in fiber aswell as vitamins, hmmm ..





Oh and one last note:
This woman must be very ill and sickly being a vegetarian... right?

http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/-china...26/1610597.htm

(also in the guinness world records)

You see that's not hear say/not opinion it's fact.

[:Liam]

Since I stopped being vegetarian Ive lost 1 stone (when I was vegetarian I was a stone overweight) So now im back to my average weight. If you think about it meat eaters get all the protein from vegetables ect. aswell as from meat therefore they can be healthier. But really it depends what you eat as some vegetarians may eat lots of fried vegetables where as a meat eater might eat lots of lean meat ect. or a vegetarian eats healthy and a meat eater eats lots of fried meats. As when I stopped being vegetarian I eat all the same foods as I did as a vegetarian and just added meat. so im getting protien from both therefore Im healthy than I was before.

[Browney]

You do know you can just get as many proteins from vegetables right? Also vegetables are lower in saturated fats (way lower) and high in fiber aswell as vitamins, hmmm ..

Scientists have proven that the humans species needs a balanced diet. Sugars, fibre, carbs, fats. All useful. All needed.

Pork Loin Chop: 25g of protein
5 cans of baked beans: 25g of protein
(Approx)