Concerning rule A33

[GommeInc]

Lets look at it this way;

Places in the UK have slang words for swear words, and translators don't know the meaning of these slang words.

So, lets take myself, i can speak near-fluent italian, i know slang in italian alone for swear words that a translator doesn't know as it is a word not in the italian dictionary

So if a mod wanted to check a slang word in italian, if they went to a translator it wouldn't work as that slang word isn't in the dictionary, therefore isn't on a translator, so they don't know wherever to get rid or not.

9/10 translators these days are messed up anyway -.- none of them translate properly

Ah but you haven't looked at the bigger picture. Not many people will have a clue what you are talking about, especially Italian slang so if you say rude phrases, no one will take much notice. It's only until someone says "Ain't that rude?", then action will be taken much like if you use slang English to describe something rude "/

[Ella]

Ah but you haven't looked at the bigger picture. Not many people will have a clue what you are talking about, especially Italian slang so if you say rude phrases, no one will take much notice. It's only until someone says "Ain't that rude?", then action will be taken much like if you use slang English to describe something rude "/

Most the people who want to say something rude, are going to say it in English, and I'm not sure Gaelic have words as such - as they're more traditional, If I make up slang in Gaelic, twill only be me who understands it. Not sure about Welsh.
But that happens in English too. A few years ago when a student teacher told me I had 'sexual boots' I thought he was a complete creep. Unawares that he came from Glasgow and it meant cool up there. I did ask him about this, he was very apologetic and chose his words more carefully after that.

Tis a good point though I have to admit

[Catzsy]

[QUOTE=Ella;3989996][quote=Catzsy;3989447]Totally agree and its only that high because it is mandatory that children are tought Welsh in schools - parents do not have a choice in the matter.

And what about the people outwith Wales who WANT to learn and speak it? They do exist. :rolleyes:

Yes and they have every opportunity to do so - I live in Wales and speak welsh but there is an inordinate amount of emphasis on it and it has been shown in this thread. Much more coverage than its popularity and usage deserves. You can use it in the education thread so perhaps ask there? I remember when this rule came in - it was because somebody was being very offensive and 'avoiding the filter' in Spanish. I am not saying the rule is right because I did catch the member with a translator but to make such a fuss about this language is going right over the top. I doubt if more than 5 members can speak it.

[Lycan]

[quote=Catzsy;3990849][quote=Ella;3989996]

Totally agree and its only that high because it is mandatory that children are tought Welsh in schools - parents do not have a choice in the matter.

Yes and they have every opportunity to do so - I live in Wales and speak welsh but there is an inordinate amount of emphasis on it and it has been shown in this thread. Much more coverage than its popularity and usage deserves. You can use it in the education thread so perhaps ask there? I remember when this rule came in - it was because somebody was being very offensive and 'avoiding the filter' in Spanish. I am not saying the rule is right because I did catch the member with a translator but to make such a fuss about this language is going right over the top. I doubt if more than 5 members can speak it.

So if it is just 5 members theres no real harm in changing the rule from English language to British National languages, Welsh and Celtic... no harm if its just 5?...

[Cwmbran]

What is the major issue with there being a small area of Habbox Forum where people can speak in Welsh, Irish Gaelic or Scottish Gaelic?
Particulary if there were translations in English also posted?
We're not talking about having the whole of the forum populated with Welsh or Gaelics posts, but a small area where they can talk about anything. Thus not related to Education.
Does it not occur to you that because other forums does not offer this that you'd be accomadating your users needs? And may pull in the other people who would like to talk in Welsh or Gaelic.
You have come up with issues. We have come up with solutions. (e.g. Not knowing what it means - post the translation).
It occurs to me the only reason you are fighting this so much is that YOU don't speak them. If we had an area of Habbox where people could speak them maybe you could learn.

Just too add onto your post the Admin's will not change the rule because they believe they would need to hire new moderators that are fluent in the language being spoken which is completely false.
Very good post, +Rep.

1. According to the 2001 census results 582,368 persons age 3 and over were able to speak Welsh – 20.8% of the population. (Even welsh on a welsh forum would struggle to understand their own language)
2. After a think there would be no problem to me if people posted in english and then below said what language they were translating it to. (they must love typing everything out twice.) but just to post in any randon language without any exact translation is very wrong.

1. That 20.8% is only the people that speak Welsh on a daily basis and are fluent in the language, I would say about 60% of all Welsh people can speak some Welsh.
2. That is what I and others want to happen, as Ella has been saying throughout her post's people would post translations and I for one am happy to do that if I was allowed to talk in another British Language.

[GommeInc]

It has come to my attention that Habbox Management/Administrators think that everyone can speak any language and understand it fully, while they can't nor can their staff or moderators.

[nvrspk4]

One point I want to make. What possible purpose is there for speaking in a certain language that you cannot do in the English language? If you simply want to excersize your right to speak Welsh, no, that's not a solid enough reason for us to change the rules. As much as we try to work with our members, I see no valid reason for us to change the rules, and subject our moderators to extra work simply because people want to excersize a right that has no functionality other than existing in and of itself.

Until someone can prove that there is a specific reason why certain things need to be posted in Welsh that could not be properly communicated or simply could not be posted in English for a valid reason, I doubt a rule change will even be considered.

I know it sounds harsh, but I'm getting a bit exasperated. HabboxForum members have gotten this interesting trait to argue something on the basis that they can, and they have the right to criticize everything they can type, and because they can, they will. They also seem to think that they should have all rights, even if there is no functionality, or there are disadvantages, simply because they should have the right, whether the idea itself is functional or not. This forum is not a forum for the appreciation of cultures, or to facilitate a multilingual community. This is to facilitate the community of a fansite for an English-based online virtual-world.

because the World... and especially the Uk (as this is a Uk forum) doesn't just speak English.

If the world doesn't speak English, how will they use Habbo.co.uk? If they don't use (or never used to use) Habbo.co.uk, why would they use HabboxForum? Plus, the majority of the world can speak English. Why, you seem to be pretty fluent in it yourself

Habbox has this rule which allows you to post off topic when you are replying to a post that is gradually off topic, but it is considered on topic for a thread as a whole. WHy can't someone post off topic in a foreign language. It's hardly bad and just seems like management are taking away one freedom. What if you want to describe a French/German/Russian review on something? Will that be off topic too?

If you want to describe a French German or Russian review, such as a magazine article? Why can't you simply plug it into a translator yourself then? Apparently its so ridiculously easy

- Posting quotes which are in another language and translating them.
- Posting quotes in another language which mean alot to you.
- Posting news from another country which people may find an interest in.

If people use another language to insult another, it would be wasted effort, because no one will know what one earth they are attempting to say AND it would not cause arguments any differently than being rude or offensive in English? Why? Because this forum takes action when an argument breaks out. Something mildly rude is ignored unless great offense is taking from it. So posting in another language isn't a worry "/ Especially when a minority will know what they're on about.

It is a wasted effort, I agree. Does that mean people don't do it? Of course not. Scamming to obtain virtual pixels is completely pointless and a wasted effort. Are there scammers on the hotel? Of course. I personally have been insulted in German slang, and the translators actually wouldn't do it for me, I have a German friend and I had to wait about 4 hours before I could even get a proper translation when he came online. So yes, people do do it, it was happening rather often when the rule was imposed. Also, bullying could take place, where two people criticize a third, or whatnot. We have to be able to monitor *EVERYTHING* that goes on, because there's always a chance that we're liable.

Ahhhh thats right start assuming things.... try and bring a bad name to thoose who speak a language other then English...

That's blowing things out of proportion IMO.

What is the major issue with there being a small area of Habbox Forum where people can speak in Welsh, Irish Gaelic or Scottish Gaelic?

There is the languages forum. What is the major reason for having a forum for those languages, apart from simply having the right to use it? It seems that you're not arguing for it, you're simply countering arguments against it. You still haven't provided us with a concrete reason to do something about it. We don't act on things where the reasoning is "well I don't see why we shouldn't", we act on things where we have a rational "This is why we should."

Particulary if there were translations in English also posted?
We're not talking about having the whole of the forum populated with Welsh or Gaelics posts, but a small area where they can talk about anything. Thus not related to Education.

Why? What is the need to talk in Gaelic, apart from simply being able to? After all, as great as the language is, this isn't a forum to celebrate the Gaelic tongue.

Does it not occur to you that because other forums does not offer this that you'd be accomadating your users needs? And may pull in the other people who would like to talk in Welsh or Gaelic.

It does occur to us that some five members are arguing for it. Maybe a few more. It does also occur to us that an equal amount, if not a greater amount, are arguing against it.

You have come up with issues. We have come up with solutions. (e.g. Not knowing what it means - post the translation).

You still haven't come up with a reason. In debate they call this issues inherent within the status quo - what's wrong with the current status quo.

It occurs to me the only reason you are fighting this so much is that YOU don't speak them. If we had an area of Habbox where people could speak them maybe you could learn.

The Education forum is perfectly acceptable for teaching and learning languages

Totally agree and its only that high because it is mandatory that children are tought Welsh in schools - parents do not have a choice in the matter.

And what about the people outwith Wales who WANT to learn and speak it? They do exist. :rolleyes:

That's great that they exist, but this isn't a place for them to come to celebrate the Welsh tongue. They could learn it in the language forums, or get tutored by someone over MSN. But this isn't a place for people wanting to learn Welsh to flock, because that isn't, and never will be, our target audience.

The forum rule should be changed to allow british languages, such as Welsh and Celtic. if you have a problem with people speaking in theese two langauges then don't post in there threads, otherwise i'll just assume you don't like it for the sake of not liking as there is no real reason to stop people speaking a British language on a British forum other then lazyness of members and staff

That's out of order to basically attempt to exile counterpoints from your thread. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't eradicate their right to an opinion, whether right or wrong by your principles. I have the power to ban you from this thread, heck, to ban you from this whole forum for opposing my opinion like you attempted to do just now. Do I excersize it? Of course not. I wouldn't ever ban you for expressing an opinion contrary to mine (as long as, of course, its within the rules.)

Lets look at it this way;

Places in the UK have slang words for swear words, and translators don't know the meaning of these slang words.

So, lets take myself, i can speak near-fluent italian, i know slang in italian alone for swear words that a translator doesn't know as it is a word not in the italian dictionary

So if a mod wanted to check a slang word in italian, if they went to a translator it wouldn't work as that slang word isn't in the dictionary, therefore isn't on a translator, so they don't know wherever to get rid or not.

9/10 translators these days are messed up anyway -.- none of them translate properly

That's a terrific point. If anyone knows the Google translator trick..."Monica's mama..." it illustrates the point. It even illustrates how moderators using translators could get something bad out of something innocent. Half the job of the moderators is interpretation, to decide whether the circumstances surrounding the post and the context of the post make it an actual violation of the rules. It becomes very difficult ot enforce that when they are depending on a highly flawed translator.

So if it is just 5 members theres no real harm in changing the rule from English language to British National languages, Welsh and Celtic... no harm if its just 5?...

There is no harm perhaps (there is, but for the sake of argument, lets say there isn't), but there's also no reason. We aren't going to create a forum for five people to use. There are other outlets. PMs, MSN, a foreign Habbo, your own chatroom, whatever. But we still have not been provided with a reason to make the change suggested other than simply to give you the right. What is the need for that right?

It has come to my attention that Habbox Management/Administrators think that everyone can speak any language and understand it fully, while they can't nor can their staff or moderators.

Where do you get that? Also, if we believed everyone could speak any language and fully understand it...we would allow other languages, would we not? The majority of the world does speak, at the very least, limited English however.

[Catzsy]

[QUOTE=Cwmbran;3990922]Just too add onto your post the Admin's will not change the rule because they believe they would need to hire new moderators that are fluent in the language being spoken which is completely false.
Very good post, +Rep.

[/LIST][LIST=1][*]That 20.8% is only the people that speak Welsh on a daily basis and are fluent in the language, I would say about 60% of all Welsh people can speak some Welsh.

LOL Tell me how you have come to these figures? These figures include the entire Welsh school children population from the age of 4 - 14 and very few actually have welsh as their first language and would not learn it unless it was compulsory. They do not use it at home or outside the classroom. I think you have plucked 60% as a figure out of the sky and I am sure the whole forum can say a German or French phrase but it doesn't mean they are using the language in any meaningful way.

NVR was right - you have just bought the Welsh Language argument onto this board. Its bad enough having thrust down your throat in Wales by a constantly whining minority who get on the rest of the population's nerves.

[sierk1]

For practical reasons and also because I think it is important for the idea of a community I want everybody who uses this forum to be able to read all posts. Therefore we decided on english as the standard language. There is no other alternative that we can consider, as english is the only language that (almost) everybody in the uk (and also big parts of the rest of the world) speaks.

If a lot of our users prefer that we don't forbid other languages, and let people post in any language they like, we can consider that. Personally I think it would be very annoying for our users to randomly come across posts in threads that they cannot understand, and I also don't see a need for it as I assume that everybody who uses this forum understands english. But if we do keep to one language only, it has to be english.

[-Xiangu-]

agreed with sierk +rep