Complaints forum

[Ostinato]

I'm sorry but that's completely uncalled for. I agree that the stifling of discussion due to the complaints forum is perhaps an issue, but saying its just because administrators are too lazy is quite frankly just speaking without even thinking.

On top of everything I do, I don't have time to come back and read a thirty two page thread. Well, I might, if it was all on discussion. However when I read the 32 page thread, I find somewhere around page 8, insults get slung around for four pages, then someone brings up another topic bashing someone. Then it stops around page 17 and there's a page and a half discussion on another related issue. Then someone comes back and quotes page 6 and brings the argument back after people passed over it. A page and a half more of the conversation on page 17 and 18 comes, then someone bashes the member who quoted page 6 on page 18/19. Then bashing for 5 pages, then bash some staff for another 5.

Confusing? Yeah, I think so too. I don't have time to read a thread where everyone bashes everyone, half the posts are pointless, and I have to hand out 10 infractions. Why are the big threads so hard to handle? Because the big threads are where all the rulebreaking is. Take a look, the big long threads you see are ALWAYS complaints, and somewhere along the way someone is ALWAYS bashing. Why can't the moderators deal with it? Because the thing evolves so damned fast. I post in a thread, come back the next day, and there's TEN pages of bashing that flew up overnight. Its impossible to keep on track with that.

Please, do a little investigation before you decry all the administrators of the forum for such things. After all, although you have experience, they are very different times.

I suppose my post was pretty generalised and obviously it doesn't apply to every administrator. I am fully aware there is many adminsout there working to the best of their ability to cope with their huge workload. However - at the same time there is some who aren't, and are some mod's who are letting people get away with murder whilst others are being punished for petty reasons, you are aware yourself.

After all, although you have experience, they are very different times.

You can say that again. :rolleyes:

[Catzsy]

It gives us more freedom to reply.

If a complaint is posted on the forum, any AGM or Admin can reply, however not all AGMs and Admins have access to the contact us.

If the public can see the replies that we post to complaints, then they can see that something is definately being done about the problem, whereas with a contact us form there is rarely any guarantee or proof that an administrator has even read your complaint.

Obviously it will need tweaking to prevent people seeing other people's complaints aobut forum members/Habbox staff, however I think the idea is a good move; if only for the fact that we can reply and move on from a complaint much quicker than a contact us, and faster than if it was a public thread in this forum where lots of argumentative posting takes place.

This system allows us to stick to the system:

complaint ---> recognition ---> action ---> solution

in most cases, where as before it was:

complaint ---> sift through 8 pages of four or five members arguing ---> take moderator action against breach of forum rules within thread ---> actually figure out what is being complained about ---> try and come up with a solution.

This all sounds very fancy and again I wonder if you know the difference between arguement and debate. It certainly gives you more freedom to reply and even more freedom not to be accountable for actually dealing with the compaint. In your case I have also noticed that you are slightly caustic in your answers - Was 'have a nice day ' really called for when you obviously didn't mean it.

complaint ---> recognition ---> action ---> solution

Hmmm so far I have seen complaints but very few solutions or indeed recognition that there is a complaint at all.


complaint ---> sift through 8 pages of four or five members arguing ---> take moderator action against breach of forum rules within thread ---> actually figure out what is being complained about ---> try and come up with a solution.[/I]

Why do Management feel that it is necessary to wait until the thread is 8 pages long? If they can check the complaint forum efficiently why can't they step in early on a thread. Nvrspk4 and Joshuar regularly enter debates but they don't have the power to make a final decision. What is being complained about is usually in the thread starters first post? Very few as I can see have actually required any moderator action. The problem is that Management quite often don't want to come up with a solution as it might mean having to compromise. The complaints forum is there so that Management have control of the situation as opposed to free speech of members. Thats what its all about.

[---MAD---]

Why do Management feel that it is necessary to wait until the thread is 8 pages long? If they can check the complaint forum efficiently why can't they step in early on a thread. Nvrspk4 and Joshuar regularly enter debates but they don't have the power to make a final decision. What is being complained about is usually in the thread starters first post?

That is exactly why we have the complaints forum. All the addons to the complaint are not necessary so we can resolve it or at least reply to the thread starter and he/she will know what is/isn't happening to solve the problem.

The complaints forum is there so that Management have control of the situation as opposed to free speech of members.

Yes thats true - we do not want endless discussions about a complaint we are looking at solving or already have solved. If you call that controlling, then fine.

Hmmm so far I have seen complaints but very few solutions or indeed recognition that there is a complaint at all.

Thats another problem, you don't seem to think we try to solve problems if we feel they are real. You think they are only solved if there is a 90 paged thread, that is simply not true. There are somethings that can be solved quickly, whilst others take longer or cannot be solved at all to everyone's liking .

The reason the forum is not private is so that people can see we try to deal with problems and that we are not trying to hide problems that members are having with Habbox to make it seem like we are "perfect".

[Catzsy]

That is exactly why we have the complaints forum. All the addons to the complaint are not necessary so we can resolve it or at least reply to the thread starter and he/she will know what is/isn't happening to solve the problem.


Yes thats true - we do not want endless discussions about a complaint we are looking at solving or already have solved. If you call that controlling, then fine.


Thats another problem, you don't seem to think we try to solve problems if we feel they are real. You think they are only solved if there is a 90 paged thread, that is simply not true. There are somethings that can be solved quickly, whilst others take longer or cannot be solved at all to everyone's liking .

The reason the forum is not private is so that people can see we try to deal with problems and that we are not trying to hide problems that members are having with Habbox to make it seem like we are "perfect".

Well yes I do see it as controlling and it is up to you whether a thread goes on endlessly. All you need to do is to post and say that the suggestion(why are they seen as complaints?) is being considered and I am sure that will satisfy the membership as long as the decision is then posted whether it is yes or no with valid reasons for either answer. Obviously you can't please everybody and nobody is suggesting that is what should happen.
At the end of the day it is you who has power to make a decision and this causes these endless discussions because you basically ignore some threads and by ignoring them you come over as dismissive and uncaring which you are probably not. Maybe you should consider some delegation of power?

As far as having 'complaints open' I do think that some members would prefer their matter to be dealt with in a private way so maybe you should have a private section for this. I personally feel Earthquake has a valid arguement - he is basically being bullied with -rep for a complaint that he is entitled to make.

I don't think anybody is expecting Habbox to be perfect just to interact with members in a positive and friendly way.

[---MAD---]

At the end of the day it is you who has power to make a decision and this causes these endless discussions because you basically ignore some threads and by ignoring them you come over as dismissive and uncaring which you are probably not. Maybe you should consider some delegation of power?

As far as having 'complaints open' I do think that some members would prefer their matter to be dealt with in a private way so maybe you should have a private section for this. I personally feel Earthquake has a valid arguement - he is basically being bullied with -rep for a complaint that he is entitled to make.

Yes we do have the power to deal with it and this is the way we wanted to deal with it. If we locked a complaint thread, another will be made saying "WHY LOCK THE THREAD?!?!" for example. Any solution will not please all users as this is a sensitive area (complaints).

If a complaint needs to be private, a PM to myself or whoever needs to read it is still an option.

That is all I will be saying regarding this matter as I think I have explained everything now.

[Catzsy]

Well okay so summarising what you have said it basically boils down to if you want to ignore members threads you will. I do not see who 'we' is though
but as you said you have nothing more to say on the matter so members who have made very valid suggestions in the feedback forum can basically bog off as far as you are concerned!

I hope I have summarised your feelings in these matters correctly.

[Bomb-Head]

That is all I will be saying regarding this matter as I think I have explained everything now.

So even if another member asks a valid question regarding the idea you won't be answering it? Says a lot.

[Ostinato]

I thought this forum was all about the users?

The past couple of weeks all I have seen is admins doing whatever they think is good, and despite a large amount of user uproar and decline regarding the issue it seems to be a case of "our way or no way".

I think it's important staff remember it is the users that have made Habbox what it is, and give it a purpose in the first place, so isn't it about time youa ctually started to listening to what we want? :rolleyes:

[nvrspk4]

I suppose my post was pretty generalised and obviously it doesn't apply to every administrator. I am fully aware there is many adminsout there working to the best of their ability to cope with their huge workload. However - at the same time there is some who aren't, and are some mod's who are letting people get away with murder whilst others are being punished for petty reasons, you are aware yourself.

Fair enough.

You can say that again. :rolleyes:

Don't quote me on whether its good or bad though

[Wizzdom]

What if people have a complaint about others? It's only natural when they see it they may get upset and this forum which was created to "prevent arguments" will in fact instigate them moreso...

Agreed, this wasn't taken into account when the forum was created.

Why are we not allowed to "argue" over this forum? Obviously throwing insults at each other isn't tolerated, but we shouldn't have our right to debate and discuss issues on here taken away from us.

If people have a 'complaint' then why can't other people contribute to it and add their own experiences to it. That will therefore allow admins to see how serious a problem is as they will be aware whether or not more users are experiencing the same complaint/problem.

I think the problem here is admins can't be bothered going through long threads and seeing all users contributions so would rather just give a quick 2 minute answer.

Sadly - that's not the attitude that built Habbox to what it is now.

I agree, everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion. If someone did want a debate, then surely they would post in the Habbox Feedback so there can be a discussion. I disagree with the admin part, some work very hard.

Well if people are going to get into arguments then it is obviously a heated enough topic to cause such conflict.

I understand some users will break forum rules - but isn't that why we have moderators in the first place? Their job is actually to deal with the rule breaking that occurs, so why should other members valid opinions be silenced just because of they people - that can actually be dealt with the way they are supposed to be anyway...?

I really do think this is just a case of, as Adzeh actually admitted, admins being far too damn lazy to sift through threads to get a real insight into both sides of the argument and see how users react to it. To be honest I feel we need admins who are actually dedicated to do so, as that is the way to see a quick overall look of many forum members opinions regarding issues and therefore an insight can be seen easily.

Admin only moderate the Habbox Feedback section, maybe they should consider adding Super Moderators or even normal moderators of whom would be able to do the job. If they have that BIG workload then maybe they should consider doing this

I suppose my post was pretty generalised and obviously it doesn't apply to every administrator. I am fully aware there is many adminsout there working to the best of their ability to cope with their huge workload. However - at the same time there is some who aren't, and are some mod's who are letting people get away with murder whilst others are being punished for petty reasons, you are aware yourself.

You can say that again. :rolleyes:

I try to be fair at all times. I will punish what i believe needs punishing. Maybe if more members were to report posts, more will be done, especially during the times overnight and early morning.

Hmmm so far I have seen complaints but very few solutions or indeed recognition that there is a complaint at all.

Management feel that it is necessary to wait until the thread is 8 pages long? If they can check the complaint forum efficiently why can't they step in early on a thread. Nvrspk4 and Joshuar regularly enter debates but they don't have the power to make a final decision.

Maybe you should give it a little more time, to be fair it has only just come to our attention.

I do agree with your second comment

Well yes I do see it as controlling and it is up to you whether a thread goes on endlessly. All you need to do is to post and say that the suggestion(why are they seen as complaints?) is being considered and I am sure that will satisfy the membership as long as the decision is then posted whether it is yes or no with valid reasons for either answer.

I don't think anybody is expecting Habbox to be perfect just to interact with members in a positive and friendly way.

Agreed.

Yes we do have the power to deal with it and this is the way we wanted to deal with it. If we locked a complaint thread, another will be made saying "WHY LOCK THE THREAD?!?!" for example. Any solution will not please all users as this is a sensitive area (complaints).

If a complaint needs to be private, a PM to myself or whoever needs to read it is still an option.

Agreed. Not everyone will be happy, thats the way it goes :eusa_danc. Wahheyy MAD has a solution to the private, the PM! Well done Mad

I thought this forum was all about the users?

The past couple of weeks all I have seen is admins doing whatever they think is good, and despite a large amount of user uproar and decline regarding the issue it seems to be a case of "our way or no way".

I think it's important staff remember it is the users that have made Habbox what it is, and give it a purpose in the first place, so isn't it about time youa ctually started to listening to what we want? :rolleyes:

Well said