Regarding the Reputation Issue

[Titch]

The Idear in red is a very good one and should be instated, should stop all that pointless rep and arguments over it.

[Mr.OSH]

A question, with us not being able to buy rep anymore, does that include getting it from buying VIP?

You still get additional reputation as a V.I.P feature, that has not been removed to my knowledge.

[Blue]

Oh good, thanks

[GommeInc]

Btw why does --ss-- have 17 rep?

Edited by opensourcehost (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not post pointless or off-topic comments.

That comment wasn't off-topic :S

This thread is nearly one month too late. Just delete the rep points people have reported, and further delete rep points that break the HUGE list of forum rules. I don't know why someone thought it would be a good idea to delete ALL rep comments which maybe considered pointless. Because isn't it the member who has the rep has the right to say whether or not it is pointless? If that member gets a 'pointless' rep or rep with a small, strange rep comment, it may aswell be from someone who owed him rep, but didn't know what to say, or furthermore, it could be from a friend they have on this forum.

In short,

Don't touch rep that hasn't specifically been asked to be touched when it doesn't break ANY forum rules. Only touch rep that has been reported, e.g. from multiple members complaining about a stupid member who likes to pointless rep OR rep points reported in the 'Report Reputation' thread.

If you find pointless rep being sent, just warn the member responsible to stop their actions or action will be taken against them, like you've stated in red.

[Mr.OSH]

That comment wasn't off-topic :S

This thread is nearly one month too late. Just delete the rep points people have reported, and further delete rep points that break the HUGE list of forum rules. I don't know why someone thought it would be a good idea to delete ALL rep comments which maybe considered pointless. Because isn't it the member who has the rep has the right to say whether or not it is pointless? If that member gets a 'pointless' rep or rep with a small, strange rep comment, it may aswell be from someone who owed him rep, but didn't know what to say, or furthermore, it could be from a friend they have on this forum.

In short,

Don't touch rep that hasn't specifically been asked to be touched when it doesn't break ANY forum rules. Only touch rep that has been reported, e.g. from multiple members complaining about a stupid member who likes to pointless rep OR rep points reported in the 'Report Reputation' thread.

If you find pointless rep being sent, just warn the member responsible to stop their actions or action will be taken against them, like you've stated in red.

I understand what you are saying but people sending positive reputation to each other because they are friends and therefore artificially increasing their friends reputation isn't very fair on those who work hard posting good posts in order to increase their reputation. That is what has caused the removal of "pointless" reputation that people issue. If people didn't abuse the system and did what it is meant to be used for - adding reputation to members who are helpful or do something nice, this wouldn't be a problem. It was before the changes far to easy to gain reputation and it meant this had a knock on effect in regards to lots of people having very high *artificial* reputation power which was ruining the system as it was not achieving what it was set up to do and that is to identify members who are well known and helpful. With these changes hopefully in the long run it will improve the system to a point where it is useful and an achievement to get higher reputation power.

[Angel-Light]

Personally I think the rep system should be scrapped altogether. All it is really is a number. People should know you for a reputation from the posts that you do not because of a silly little number. I have been on the forum since the olden times and the problem to do with rep just keeps growing.

If something causes so much trouble then just get rid of it!

[Mr.OSH]

Personally I think the rep system should be scrapped altogether. All it is really is a number. People should know you for a reputation from the posts that you do not because of a silly little number. I have been on the forum since the olden times and the problem to do with rep just keeps growing.

If something causes so much trouble then just get rid of it!

I don't think it is as simple as that to just remove the system considering in the past people have purchased reputation and also one of the VIP features is reputation. Back logging and refunding everyone who bought reputation one way or another wouldn't be easy at all.

[Dentafrice,]

Hey there,

Ok, I'm sorry, but no matter how dedicated I am and how much I don't back down from a long thread or long posts, there's no way I'm going through 58 pages this late. Actually, I would, except they all say the same thing except for the one meaningful post here and there. So I cba to read that just to find the occasional gem of originality and thought. So if you made a decent point, feel free to post it here. If you are going to post here saying STUPID CHANGE CHANGE IT NOW, I will not pay attention to you. Who knows, I may even make a statement -rep you. Ok I probably won't because that doesn't achieve anything. And that's a point I'll make later. But first.

No I'm not going to leave this saying post worthwhile posts here to save me trouble. I have a point to make.

First of all, it seems all the blame is going to MAD. Now, I could sit here and let him take all the heat, and it wouldn't be hard at all, and we would've gotten something that needed to be done done and I would have kept my (limited at best) popularity. But that's an utterly vile and despiccable thing to do to have someone else take the heat for something you were a part of. So let me reveal something. The decision was one made by all four members of General Management plus sierk. At least the decision to make the limits for rep power higher were the decision of all five of us, we're reevaluating if the specific numbers are too high or two low, but we aren't going to change it to an arbitrary number just because you feel its right. We'll actually think out arguments to why it should be at a lower or higher number.

Moving on, it was all of our decision. So no, its not MAD abusing his power. Even if I hated MAD (and I don't..and anyone who tells me that I'm sucking up evidently lacks the brainpower to realize that I have no reason to suck up) I would not allow him to take the sole blame on this. So, it was a committee decision I suppose you could say and we did argue the issue out a bit.

But let me give you a bit of perspective before you tell us that this committee is biased against you and since we're so elite and have 15 power anyway since we don't care. We put every option on there when we discuss a problem. We weren't just like, HEY LETS LOWER EVERYONES REP POWER LOZL. We consider the reputation issue a very large one. Therefore, we posted the reputation issue up, and looked for solutions. We put EVERYTHING up there, no matter how wild. Among those were removing the system entirely, refunding and removing ALL bought rep, setting the system to 0, etc. etc. Another one was disabling negative rep. And the last was removing paid rep. One by one they were struck down as AGMs thinking of the members decided that they were too unfair or were biased against certain people. I won't tell you who did what, because this isn't about glorification, its just to illustrate that we don't do everything without thinking about the members. So only making rep power harder to achieve remained, along with removing rep. We decided to do both. This was after extended debating of the issue.

So it was a thought out decision, we are rethinking SOME of the numbers, and some of the numbers (ie Rep from 1000 to 600) have changed. However the basis behind the idea still stands. Rep powers are going far too high, and reputation is slowly spinning out of control. Why is it an issue? The high powers are being abused. A social order is being created where the higher your rep and rep power is, the higher up you are. This is the forum equivalent of the "The more your car cost the larger your *genitalia* is." That's redonkulous. As is the rep power thing. Also larger rep powers used their rep power to cower newer members, and they would actually -rep people they didn't like until they sat down and shut up. Obviously not acceptable.

Don't believe me about the social order? Then why not reexamine why you're mad. Why are you mad? Because you lost rep power. Why do you care about losing rep power? Because obviously you think it has some part in the respect you get. Don't feed me *crud* about how its for the satisfaction of being able to take one more point off an annoying member's rep or give one more point for that super alt. Because that is crap. You care because you have a higher number above your rep bar. I believe it was possibly one of the biggest mistakes we have ever made adding the rep power to a person's postbit. If you still don't believe me, consider this. Did anybody care about their rep power until it was included in the postbit? No. If it wasn't included in the postbit, nobody would even notice or mind the change all that much either. Everyone's complaints are about numbers. Just confirming this more.

Does it mean you have bigger ones just because you have a higher number above your rep bar? Are you morally superior to someone else because you have a bigger number there? No.

Oh yeah, and coincidentally you might consider how lucky you are. Since probably in total thousands of power were removed across the forum, tens of thousands of rep points should have been lost. People who got only three reps from neversoft should have lost about 100 points just from that. (And, no matter what you think, we weren't targeting you specifically )

So, present to me a logical argument that is not based off of "I want a higher rep power for the purpose of having a higher number there" and I will respond.

I have other things I want to say, but right now they're swimming around in the back of my head and I can't grab them quick enough. So let me take a different tack.

You could try it out you know. It wouldn't kill you. Last three major riots? Infractions, MAD being GM, MAD being FM. Nobody cares anymore (or at least as much). Well, people consider MAD a terrible GM now, but three days ago I can guarantee a lot fewer people disliked MAD as a GM.

Half of the people in this are caught up in a mob mentality. If you were each able to speak with an (A)GM one on one, I guarantee the numbers of protestors would be much less. However when 20 people are outraged, spreading their outrage to 3 friends each, all of a sudden it becomes a frenzy and an AGM's response is lost between 20 protesting posts, and nearly half the people don't see it.




On a completely different tack, the poll, as I'm sure you've guessed, is totally unrelated to the rant. So I would like to know what y'all think about this.

Person A gives Person B a pointless rep.

Admin finds it because of one of the circumstances that leads them to search through rep, lets not go through those now.

Rep is deleted, Admin records it and PMs it to person B explaining that its been deleted as its pointless (may be multiple reps if Person B was being searched, however if Person A was having their sent reps checked, then the Admin wouldn't randomly check Person B's recieved reps).

Person B has no consequences other than the little bit of rep points removed.

Person A, however, has the amount of all sent pointless reps over the last month added together, and double the amount is subtracted from Person A's rep by the Admin.

You can't deny the responsiblity for the reps you send. This way the person who pointless reps is punished, and its a more effective way to combat the pointless rep situation (in addition to the rep power thing, which was ridiculous for other reasons, this has to do with pointless rep but pointless rep was only one facet of the rep power thing.) So feel free to leave your opinions on this too.


And finally, on a COMPLETELY different task, there is something big coming in January that I will be putting together (and am putting together now) that I think will make things like these easier to stomach in the future, and give you an outlet, or at least a better explanation, about these kinds of issues. However no comments about that please because its not that far away and I'm not saying nawt

So anyway, there's my rant.

Anyone who says OMG THATS TOO LONG TO READ has in my eyes lost all validity and all their rights to complain about the issue. If they truly care, they would read it. If they don't read it, they're A) merely agitators B) jumping on the bandwagon C) finding an excuse to rip management or D) don't really care all that much.

nvr

What the hell, your on a completely different thing, i'm not sure if you read my thing, but how is this "pointless rep" thing helping..

WHAT WE REALLY WANT

I'm sure more people want their rep power, then pointless rep, yeah.. pointless rep is a problem, but thats not what people are caring about right now.

There were other soulutions that could have been put in place, but you took the easy way out, which angered everyone.

Good job management

[Smits]

I think the idea in red is much better than the new system, although i do think you should of thought of more ideas and discussed them with the community first, rather than just going straight into it.

The way i see it is this, some members of staff are sick and tired of pointless rep so them themselves decide to change it, not discussing with many others.

[reindeer.]

I understand what you are saying but people sending positive reputation to each other because they are friends and therefore artificially increasing their friends reputation isn't very fair on those who work hard posting good posts in order to increase their reputation. That is what has caused the removal of "pointless" reputation that people issue. If people didn't abuse the system and did what it is meant to be used for - adding reputation to members who are helpful or do something nice, this wouldn't be a problem. It was before the changes far to easy to gain reputation and it meant this had a knock on effect in regards to lots of people having very high *artificial* reputation power which was ruining the system as it was not achieving what it was set up to do and that is to identify members who are well known and helpful. With these changes hopefully in the long run it will improve the system to a point where it is useful and an achievement to get higher reputation power.

if they choose to do that then so be it.
stop messing round with our accounts.