Infractions for insults

[Hitman]

If I can tell you're having a joke with another user and you post something like "lol! idiot, cya tomorrow mate " then I wont give an infraction as I can clearly see you're joking with the user.

It can seem harsh as "idiot" isn't a bad enough insult for an infraction really, a warning would be more suitable, that's why Elkaa is discussing it.

However, moron is worse than idiot. Sure, we use it everyday saying things like "agh why do that moron?" but the actual meaning of it isn't very nice.

A person whose intellectual development proceeds normally up
to about the eighth year of age and is then arrested so that
there is little or no further development.

It also means idiot, cretin, imbecile, a word that's filtered here, etc.

http://dictionary.die.net/moron

[GommeInc]

I like the idea of a written warning, which is good enough. If that is ignored then a system warning and then later an infraction. It sounds about right...

If I can tell you're having a joke with another user and you post something like "lol! idiot, cya tomorrow mate " then I wont give an infraction as I can clearly see you're joking with the user.

It can seem harsh as "idiot" isn't a bad enough insult for an infraction really, a warning would be more suitable, that's why Elkaa is discussing it.

However, moron is worse than idiot. Sure, we use it everyday saying things like "agh why do that moron?" but the actual meaning of it isn't very nice.


It also means idiot, cretin, imbecile, a word that's filtered here, etc.

http://dictionary.die.net/moron

Uh huh... If people get offended by the meaning of moron, then it's clearly a joke "/ It's like when members say certain words which mean something else and there's no point complaining because if they wanted to be offensive, they'll use proper words.

[Hitman]

I like the idea of a written warning, which is good enough. If that is ignored then a system warning and then later an infraction. It sounds about right...


Uh huh... If people get offended by the meaning of moron, then it's clearly a joke "/ It's like when members say certain words which mean something else and there's no point complaining because if they wanted to be offensive, they'll use proper words.

I was just pointing out the real meaning of moron, although we use it as "idiot". Still, it isn't a really bad insult and would only deserve a warning alongside idiot, but some users may have family or know somebody who is a moron (as in whose intellectual development reaches 8 and stops) which could hurt them, sort of like if somebody has a ******ed person in their family an somebody else calls them a ******, they'd find that insulting or not nice at all.

[Invent]

You do know 'moron' hasn't been a scientific term (or at least hasn't been used in the psychological community) for quite some time now...

[You]

Chris should be banned, he's always calling people morons and idiots!

[Supersam]

If someone is offended by the insult then surely they would report the post?

For example, if someone called me a moron but did it constantly, I would probibly report the post to a moderator.

If the person it's adressed to doesnt report it, then it's hardly insultive.

I could understand if the insult contained swearing or racial/sexist remarks, or its clear the ONLY aim of the post was to insult someone else, but not if it is clearly meaningless.

[Hitman]

If someone is offended by the insult then surely they would report the post?

For example, if someone called me a moron but did it constantly, I would probibly report the post to a moderator.

If the person it's adressed to doesnt report it, then it's hardly insultive.

I could understand if the insult contained swearing or racial/sexist remarks, or its clear the ONLY aim of the post was to insult someone else, but not if it is clearly meaningless.

Some people do report posts.

This usually happens though...

User 1: What do you think of this site?
User 2: Pfft it's crap.
User 1: tell me whats crap you idiot.
User 2: no you moron go to hell.

User 1 starts insulting and user 2 should just report it, but user 2 decides to retaliate and other users end up getting involved.

[Catzsy]

It's currently in discussion about the infraction system. As has been stated above, the change a few months back was the result of several complaints, and an initiative to crack down on infractions being reversed, or issued pointlessly. To a certain extent, this has worked, but it's also caused problems in other areas, for example certain "points" only being infraction-able, and not warn-able.

Rest assured that this is in discussion, but we won't be returning to the old system (of moderator decision), but may change several more to allow warnings, as well as infractions.

Can I ask why you don't use moderator decison? Surely human judgement, flexibility and discretion means a lot more than a list of rules that cannot possibly cover all situations. If the mod's judgement is not up to it they should not be a mod. Whether it is a internet forum or not mods are at the 'coal face' so to speak and if they are doing their jobs properly do know the members within that forum quite well and can communicate with them positively to change attitudes. One size does not fit all and I think the present system of almost turning the moderation into an automatic form with little discretion is not the right way to go.

How has the change worked? All I have seen is more confrontation and more people banned. Is there no room for interaction and communication with the members anymore. If the system wasn't broke why fix it in the first place? There will always be people who are constantly banned whatever happens but why make the majority of the members suffer because of this.

All new systems should be tried, tested and evaluated anyway in my view to
see if they actually have made an improvement. I am glad to see ---MAD--- has listed polls about moderation and the forum atmosphere. This is a good initiative and shows that he values the members and is willing to see exactly what the members think about things.

[Neversoft]

I said this in the Forum Moderation poll thread. I'm glad you agree.

Oh, I didn't read any posts in that thread. Glad to see that basically everyone does agree though.

Chris should be banned, he's always calling people morons and idiots!

Pfft, you insult people more than I do!

It's currently in discussion about the infraction system. As has been stated above, the change a few months back was the result of several complaints, and an initiative to crack down on infractions being reversed, or issued pointlessly. To a certain extent, this has worked, but it's also caused problems in other areas, for example certain "points" only being infraction-able, and not warn-able.

Rest assured that this is in discussion, but we won't be returning to the old system (of moderator decision), but may change several more to allow warnings, as well as infractions.

When you say it's currently in discussion, I hope that doesn't mean it'll take a few months to decide.

[GommeInc]

Then those users need to be less narrow minded, moron is rarely used for it's literal meaning, it would be surprising if it was The majority think of it as idiot, and moron is another word to use instead of moron, so no-one really pays attention to the meanings. If people call each other morons and idiots, they're just empty insults which are just there to throw, rather than to insult literally.

****** however is a different story, because it is used formally to label someone as someone with learning diffifulties and physical or mental problems more often than moron, so when people call each other 'tards it is more insulting because it is used for it's literal meaning more than other words.

I was just pointing out the real meaning of moron, although we use it as "idiot". Still, it isn't a really bad insult and would only deserve a warning alongside idiot, but some users may have family or know somebody who is a moron (as in whose intellectual development reaches 8 and stops) which could hurt them, sort of like if somebody has a ******ed person in their family an somebody else calls them a ******, they'd find that insulting or not nice at all.

Also, (to what Elkaa said), human judgement is best for humans, if you want to force specific guidelines on moderators, it's best to use a robot, which may explain why half of moderator actions seem like they've come from a robot, rather than a human being who is in the same age range as everyone else (which really is what people want).