One of the many reasons I hate Christians.

[NitronGalactus]

I thought I'd base my argument on this wikipedia article I found, I felt it would have been less convincing without factual sources.
If you want all the details of the article, here's the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_LGBT_history

The main point: taken from the above article:

342 — Homosexuality had been accepted by all ancient cultures as a normal part of human sexuality. The rise of Christianity, however, led to the beginning of homophobia.

I would also like to point out this is purely Christian relative, I don't know the desposition of other religions and their philosophy on homosexuality throughout history.

Basically this is how homosexuality in Europe and the history goes:

• People have all types of LGBT relationships and sex in places across Europe; Greece, Rome, parts of Egypt (as the evidence shows--other parts are indeterminate, although I'm sure eastern countries like China and Japan have always been accepting). Most of the evidence show the leaders of countries as well participating in homosexuality.
• Around comes Jesus, people start writing about him, and then the Romans and Catholocism decide it's a sin the have sex with the same sex.
• Everyone opposes it and in comes all the laws
• 400 years later and with the steady incline of science, people question their faith and decide to act against it. Finally the laws decide to accept homosexuality across Europe.

This has nothing to do with the biology of homosexuals, what I'm trying to make people see is that homosexuality has never been regarded as taboo, and it's only with the rise of Christianity, that it has put a dip within the history.

The way I see it, if it wasn't for Christianity and all their regulations and rules, homosexuality would have never been looked upon as unnatural or even illegal in the first place. Homophobia shouldn't even be a problem.

And it's this oppression of different things within our society that religion has controlled. If religion hadn't of shaped us to think so narrow-mindedly there would never be so much conflict.

Closed by Jamesy (Forum Moderator): Due to bump.

[Tbh.]

k.........

Edited by lAscend (Forum Super Moderator): Please don't post pointlessly.

[FlyingJesus]

Misinformed wikipedia, oh how we love thee.

Homosexuality in civilised ancient cultures hasn't actually been a much loved thing, more just accepted. The Greeks are probably best known for it, as it was common practise for teachers to copulate with their pupils (who would of course all have been male) and the boys would be expected to just take it and get on with it. Now this raises two issues:

1) Validity of the claim that it was accepted as "a normal part of human sexuality".
It is far more likely that simply a blind eye was turned to it, and these men committing such acts would more often than not have wives also - homosexuality was a purely sexual thing and also of note is the fact that it was considered ok to give, but bad to be the one receiving it as it takes away from masculinity (being the penetrated rather than the penetrator as is usually the case).

2) Paedophilia.
Most subjects of homosexuality in ancient cultures were in fact very young boys. I have nothing against homosexuality myself but going by your logic paedophilia should also be legalised and accepted, as the two went hand in hand.


Furthermore you may want to note that it's not really the rise of Christianity which changed things, it's far more recent than that. Homosexuality through history has been something people would turn a blind eye to, but this changed only perhaps 150 years ago during the reign of Queen Victoria. Victorians are well known as a "stiff" era of people, and it was around this time that not just homosexuality but all sexuality was made taboo.

[Technologic]

So the fact the church is beginning to accept it means buggar all?

[Inseriousity.]

Wikipedia isn't exactly reliable source, is it? This is the source that informed everyone that Vernon Kay was dead, after all... it's amazing how people have no lives tbh

I'm not Christian but you're being a bit all 'it's all the christian's fault' by the sounds of it. It's not. Society would have found a different way to be horrible to each other without Christianity.

[TooClose]

2) Paedophilia.
Most subjects of homosexuality in ancient cultures were in fact very young boys. I have nothing against homosexuality myself but going by your logic paedophilia should also be legalised and accepted, as the two went hand in hand.

Actually, that's incorrect, and i'm not being funny as on the whole your forum posts make alot of sense and you're a clever lad but i find than comparison very insulting.

[TooClose]

Wikipedia isn't exactly reliable source, is it? This is the source that informed everyone that Vernon Kay was dead, after all... it's amazing how people have no lives tbh

I'm not Christian but you're being a bit all 'it's all the christian's fault' by the sounds of it. It's not. Society would have found a different way to be horrible to each other without Christianity.

I dissagree. If you trace it back, religion is at the root of most prejudice and discrimination in society.. Sex before marriage, marriage without blessing, homosexuality, interracial couples, pregnancy before marriage, arranged marriage, not to mention all of the sins that we're not supposed to commit which sometimes are unavoidable.

- On that note, however, the prejudice against mainly same sex couples was instigated by Queen Victoria. She was asked to pass a bill to outlaw homosexuality between both men and women, and when it came to it she just brushed off the idea that a woman could ever lie with another woman as she had never been able to do it herself so instead she only outlawed male/male sexual contact, lesbianism has never been against the law, just frowned upon.

I'm shockingly anti-religion, but it also pains me to admit that without it the world would be a mess today. Religion has set the foundations for the many human morals and rights that we have today, but it's over now, we know how to live our lives, we dont need a holy book to tell us what she should/ should not be doing or should/ should not believe.

I used alot of big words there, i think i'm going to bed now Cigorette first though.

xo

[NitronGalactus]

I used the article to sound more convincing as without it, why would anyone believe what I said. Obviously it backfired and caused the very opposite.
Nothing I've learnt is from Wikipedia, I found the article especially for this thread.

For starters, it's not the more recent history that has condemned it, 350 years before you've said, a law was passed outlawing male-male sex.

I will agree that a lot of homosexuality was merely sex, but there was relationships and people did accept it. I didn't say it was loved, just accepted. It was Christianity that brought about the hatred.

[FlyingJesus]

Religion has set the foundations for the many human morals and rights that we have today, but it's over now, we know how to live our lives, we dont need a holy book to tell us what she should/ should not be doing or should/ should not believe.

We "know" how to live our lives because of the morals that religion set lol, if you're suggesting that we shouldn't follow the laws of religion then we certainly do not have any idea how we "should" live.

@Nitron: it's actually in the Old Testament (ie; the Jewish Torah) that homosexuality is condemned so profusely

[Inseriousity.]

why would anyone believe what I said.

You didn't need wikipedia for that... people have their own opinion. Personally, I think this makes for good debating even if I don't agree with you said.

I've always thought people used religion as an excuse for their bad actions tbh...