UKIP Exposed!

[jam666]

And everything the tories say is Gospel is it?
How can you be sure their promise won't be empty too?

I have not said that everything the Conservatives say is gospel, i simply stated it from their own policy on the issue.

I cant be sure but i believe them 100% more than labour as they have being so called calling a referendum since 2005 and have they delivered? No. The same thing goes for many other labour policys aswell.

Your use of the word "too" is very interesting as this suggest thats you believe that the labour party cannot keep promises and you support them! so why talk about whether the Conservatives will stick to their policys when its obvious the party you support doesnt.

[Hecktix]

Every politician lies. Empty promises are part of the deal unfortunately. It's how they get elected at the end of the day.

No, Labour have not held a referendum about whether we want to be in the EU or not, then again they haven't signed the treaty yet either :rolleyes:

I support Labour because the majority of their work has had positive effect on this country in the past 12 years.

I may have been slightly more open to the tories if their leader wasn't David Cameron.

[jam666]

Every politician lies. Empty promises are part of the deal unfortunately. It's how they get elected at the end of the day.

No, Labour have not held a referendum about whether we want to be in the EU or not, then again they haven't signed the treaty yet either :rolleyes:

The only reason Gordon Brown will not hold a general election is because of the lisbon treaty. They want to sign it before the next general election as they know that the Conservatives will hold a referendum on the issue as if it is already signed by the time the Conservatives come into power they will not hold a referendum on this issue.

The majority of the things they have done in the last 12 years has not being good. Look at our debt situation now? Before labour came to power the Conservatives left government with one of the best debt records this country has ever seen. However now the labour government has raked up so much debt it will take up until atleast 2030 to pay off.

You cant condem a party for their leader, especially since labours leader is gordon brown. Lets look at the MP exspenses problem. Who was first to act? David Cameron. Who sat by and did nothing? Gordon Brown.

[Hecktix]

The only reason Gordon Brown will not hold a general election is because of the lisbon treaty. They want to sign it before the next general election as they know that the Conservatives will hold a referendum on the issue as if it is already signed by the time the Conservatives come into power they will not hold a referendum on this issue.

Pretty sure the only reason Gordon Brown won't hold a general election is becuase he knows it would be a landslide victory for the tories and it would be him giving up - which isn't really a good image of a party trying to remain in Government. The reason Brown hasnt called a GE is because he wants to give Labour a chance to redeem themselves and possibly win back a few votes.

I believe Labour will hold a referendum before the treaty is signed. Who knows, this could be Mr Browns trick to win back support? He is looking for something...

You can criticise a party for their leader when that leader could be your Prime Minister.

& if I remember rightly David Cameron just slated Labour MP's saying they were greedy, then the Conservative expenses were announced...

The expenses row comes from Parliamentary Legislation that's been in place years, it's humanity that caused the expenses problem, as humanity is generally greedy nowadays.

[jam666]

Pretty sure the only reason Gordon Brown won't hold a general election is becuase he knows it would be a landslide victory for the tories and it would be him giving up - which isn't really a good image of a party trying to remain in Government. The reason Brown hasnt called a GE is because he wants to give Labour a chance to redeem themselves and possibly win back a few votes.

I believe Labour will hold a referendum before the treaty is signed. Who knows, this could be Mr Browns trick to win back support? He is looking for something...

You can criticise a party for their leader when that leader could be your Prime Minister.

it's rather obvious that the Conservatives will win with a landslide victory so what is the point in continuing to wreck our country for another year?

How can you believe labour will hold a referendum before the next general election? This is entirely based on opinion not fact therefore has no basis as Labour have being promising a referendum since 2005 but we still have not had one 4 years down the line.

Labour cannot redeem themselves. To much damage has being done as witnessed by the events of the last 48 hours.

The Conservatives dealt with MP's who abused the system much more better than labour. The have orderd every single member of their party to pay back the money they claimed in exspenses if the things they claimed for were not deemed fair as by the council appointed to sort out the exspenses mess.

[ifuseekamy]

Politics is all idealism and fantasy anyway. It's impossible to please everyone. I'm against the EU because it's an undemocratic system with unelected leaders and I'm not really into an Orwellian government.

[-:Undertaker:-]

can someone please show me some proof that immigration costs us millions a year.... the BNP said recently that immigrants cost the UK 12billion a year, but seeing as only 14% of people in the UK are born outsife the UK, that works out at £2million for each immigrant a year.... which doesn't happen.

Immigrants don't cost us money, they contribute in taxes. Asylum seekers CAN'T because they aren't allowed to work and theres not alot we can do about asylum seekers.

The costs of;

• Those immigrants who commit crime, will cost us millions, if not billions.
• The cost of housing them in prison.
• The cost of benefits to those who refuse point blank to work.
• The cost of neogiations to take them back to their orginal country.
• The cost of deporting them for various reasons.
• The cost of accepting immigrants from the channel.

Immigration and illegal immigration both tie in together because this country has no border controls and is a failure when it comes to immigration. To say immigration doesn't cost us, you must think the whole country is stupid.

Europe have barely any control over our economy & business.
The main thing Europe have a grasp on is the courts & law and I fail to see how a universal law system would not be beneficial.
Well said.

The European Union has a massive effect over all our business and economy. Businesses have to show banking, tax reciepts, have to abide by EU rules and regulations or be closed down, the list continues right down to the last kiwi which is 1mm out.

The European Union has a massive effect on our economy, and otherwise you wouldn't support the EU if it didn't otherwise its orginal goal and aim would be void. The EU controls what goods are shipped/driven where, the prices, the size of fruit that can be sold - everything and you are kidding yourself if you think they don't.

If you think a foreign, unelected commission is "beneficial" to this country, a country which has had one of the oldest and longest running democratic parliaments in history then you don't deserve to live in this country and I am serious, you are basically arguing for a dictatorship - they are not elected and we have no say on what they tell us to do; that is the same basics as Mr Stalin and Mr Hitler ran their corrupt, unelected governments on.

On the anniversary of D-Day, to say that you wouldn't mind large and important parts of our country ruled by the unelected EU is just two fingers to the millions who gave their lives to stop us being ruled by a foreign, european force, at least that was elected though.

Comparing the City of London to a bit of the ocean is a crap analogy.

I did say it converting to the Euro would be the worst thing about being in the EU.

We do vote for our MEP's and the majority of seats that will be won on Sunday will be Conservative rather than UKIP or BNP, and this suggests to me that there isnt a desperate desire of British people to get out of the EU.

The same basic still applies, that ocean, that land, that part of the world belongs to the United Kingdom and our navy and not the EU, Kingdom of Spain or the spanish navy. Have you ever heard of appeasement? - that is what caused the second world war, we just ignored the Third Reich as it took over most of Europe, do you think we should now appease anyone claiming our lands? - that means the Falklands go to Argentina, Gibraltor to Spain and goodness knows how many other claims there are on our country and soverign territory.

I have a suggestion, if you think there isn't a desperate desire for the British people to leave the European Union, how about holding a referendum on our membership?

[alexxxxx]

The costs of;

• Those immigrants who commit crime, will cost us millions, if not billions.
• The cost of housing them in prison.
• The cost of benefits to those who refuse point blank to work.

MOST immigrants are not eligible for benefits, most immigrants do not commit crimes...

• The cost of neogiations to take them back to their orginal country.
• The cost of deporting them for various reasons.
• The cost of accepting immigrants from the channel.

'Immigrants from the channel' are ASYLUM SEEKERS and are NOT IMMIGRANTS. They are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THING. Many people mix them all up. Most immigrants are not eligible for benefits, all illegal immigrants can't recieve benefits and asylum seekers can't work because they aren't allowed.

Immigration and illegal immigration both tie in together because this country has no border controls and is a failure when it comes to immigration. To say immigration doesn't cost us, you must think the whole country is stupid.

This country does have border controls... I guess you don't venture in and out of this country very often because every time i enter and exit i have to show my passport. It is scanned and then given back to me. You know how alot of immigrants are coming through at the moment, through Ireland apparently. Immigration benefits us in so many ways it's untrue. Even a senior UKIP member used polish workers to do up his house. Immigrants put in more money than they take out, they work in our hospitals because we don't have enough doctors and nurses. Immigrants put in more money than they take out of the system.

The European Union has a massive effect over all our business and economy. Businesses have to show banking, tax reciepts, have to abide by EU rules and regulations or be closed down, the list continues right down to the last kiwi which is 1mm out.

The European Union has a massive effect on our economy, and otherwise you wouldn't support the EU if it didn't otherwise its orginal goal and aim would be void. The EU controls what goods are shipped/driven where, the prices, the size of fruit that can be sold - everything and you are kidding yourself if you think they don't.

The EU DOESN'T control which goods are shipped and where, it's a free market and allows every good, person to go WHEREVER THEY WANT.

If you think a foreign, unelected commission is "beneficial" to this country, a country which has had one of the oldest and longest running democratic parliaments in history then you don't deserve to live in this country and I am serious, you are basically arguing for a dictatorship - they are not elected and we have no say on what they tell us to do; that is the same basics as Mr Stalin and Mr Hitler ran their corrupt, unelected governments on.

The EU is beneficial to our economy and it's completley wrong to think that's untrue. Don't tell me whether If I am worthy or not to live in this country, or you are as bad as Hitler himself who told people who and who couldn't be German, then gassed them. If you know what the EU comission is, you will realise taht is isn't TRUELY unelected. There is one comissioner sent from each nation which the democratically elected government sends. 'Why can't we elect our seat on the UN Security council? or in NATO?' It's the same principal. If people don't want the EU, they vote for a non-EU party, which they will have a chance to do so in the next general election. They can also vote in the EU elections which are being completed in the rest of the EU nations at the moment.

On the anniversary of D-Day, to say that you wouldn't mind large and important parts of our country ruled by the unelected EU is just two fingers to the millions who gave their lives to stop us being ruled by a foreign, european force, at least that was elected though.

No, no it's not. It's showing we can work together to make Europe a better place and do you know what, it has WORKED. Where have the wars been in europe within the last 60 years, oh yeah, in the communist blocs and in the baltic states. Not us at all.Don't blind yourself with nationalism! We are as great as a nation as France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Sweden, Ireland and we've all come to realise that we can all prosper if we work together, pool some resouces and allow everyone to trade with each other. It's a big two fingers up to our fallen soldiers if we continue to pull ourselves apart. Good economic growth since we joined the EC/EU.

Most people want the right to live and work in other countries. Most business owners want the right to sell their goods abroad with no restrictions. Most universities would like to be able to co-operate with other universities and have exchange programs without a large fianancial burden. Most people would like to drive in other countries without having to take another test/have their drivers licence translated at a cost to them. Most people would like to appeal to the European Court of Human rights so their children's DNA isn't stored on a database. Many, many benefits.

[-:Undertaker:-]

MOST immigrants are not eligible for benefits, most immigrants do not commit crimes...

'Immigrants from the channel' are ASYLUM SEEKERS and are NOT IMMIGRANTS. They are a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THING. Many people mix them all up. Most immigrants are not eligible for benefits, all illegal immigrants can't recieve benefits and asylum seekers can't work because they aren't allowed.

This country does have border controls... I guess you don't venture in and out of this country very often because every time i enter and exit i have to show my passport. It is scanned and then given back to me. You know how alot of immigrants are coming through at the moment, through Ireland apparently. Immigration benefits us in so many ways it's untrue. Even a senior UKIP member used polish workers to do up his house. Immigrants put in more money than they take out, they work in our hospitals because we don't have enough doctors and nurses. Immigrants put in more money than they take out of the system.

The EU DOESN'T control which goods are shipped and where, it's a free market and allows every good, person to go WHEREVER THEY WANT.

The EU is beneficial to our economy and it's completley wrong to think that's untrue. Don't tell me whether If I am worthy or not to live in this country, or you are as bad as Hitler himself who told people who and who couldn't be German, then gassed them. If you know what the EU comission is, you will realise taht is isn't TRUELY unelected. There is one comissioner sent from each nation which the democratically elected government sends. 'Why can't we elect our seat on the UN Security council? or in NATO?' It's the same principal. If people don't want the EU, they vote for a non-EU party, which they will have a chance to do so in the next general election. They can also vote in the EU elections which are being completed in the rest of the EU nations at the moment.

No, no it's not. It's showing we can work together to make Europe a better place and do you know what, it has WORKED. Where have the wars been in europe within the last 60 years, oh yeah, in the communist blocs and in the baltic states. Not us at all.Don't blind yourself with nationalism! We are as great as a nation as France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Sweden, Ireland and we've all come to realise that we can all prosper if we work together, pool some resouces and allow everyone to trade with each other. It's a big two fingers up to our fallen soldiers if we continue to pull ourselves apart. Good economic growth since we joined the EC/EU.

Most people want the right to live and work in other countries. Most business owners want the right to sell their goods abroad with no restrictions. Most universities would like to be able to co-operate with other universities and have exchange programs without a large fianancial burden. Most people would like to drive in other countries without having to take another test/have their drivers licence translated at a cost to them. Most people would like to appeal to the European Court of Human rights so their children's DNA isn't stored on a database. Many, many benefits.

You are right, most illegal immigrants aren't eligable for benefits, however they still recieve them from the state because the state will not leave them to fend for themselves now will it. The state has to look after them once they are here, it cannot leave them on the street.

UKIP are not totally against immigration how many times does this have to be said, what we are against is uncontrolled, illegal immigration and it does happen, either we have no border control or it is doing a pathetic job of it, because at the moment there are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people in this country that the government does not even know are here. If a UKIP member used a polish worker for his house then fair dos because they believe in immigration which is needed.

The EU does control it, it makes sure all member states trade with eachother and can't snub another member state, that was why agriculture in this country was decimated overnmight when we joined the ECC because our apples just couldn't compete with cheaper varietys from all over Europe.

Hang on, is the EU commission elected - NO it isn't, I didn't ask whether or not its chosen by our government, I asked whether it is elected. As the main body which creates our laws, estimated by the Germans as over 75% I would think we deserve the right to elect them, or even better, to get rid of them.

Good economic growth came from Margaret Thatcher reforms, not the European Union. Billions go missing from the audits of the European Union every year, we want our money and we don't want it being sent off to Brussels to fund the gravy train there.

You REFUSE to accept a referendum of the European Union for one reason alone, you KNOW IT WILL LOSE. You know it, The European Union itself knows it, the Labour government knows it, all European Union supporters know it.

There are no two ways about it, the French, Dutch and Irish all said NO, how many times do people need to say NO until you and the European Union get the message?

Give us our referendum on the European Union, or at least support the need for a referendum regardless of whether you support the EU or not. If not then it is clear to everyone that you yourself know it would lose and in that, you clearly believe, as the Labour government does, that the people are too stupid to make their own mind up about it despite Labours' former Europe Minister, Caroline Flint not reading the treaty herself yet trying to tell us that the EU is vital for this country.

Do the people of Europe want the European Union? - NO.

[ifuseekamy]

Like you say that's a bit of land.

I think the EU is beneficial for Britain.
We won't switch to the Euro though, which I think is the worst thing about being part of the EU.

We won't have a choice which is the point being made. Whatever the EU says goes, they give themselves legal Supremacy over member nations.