Pressure mounts on Prime Minister Gordon Brown

[luce]

Thatcher was the best PM since Churchill.

I fully agree with that statement and personally can't wait until Conservative get parliament back.

[alexxxxx]

I fully agree with that statement and personally can't wait until Conservative get parliament back.

Why would you care, you live in the channel islands, you have your own government?

[Hecktix]

I fully agree with that statement and personally can't wait until Conservative get parliament back.

*Government not Parliament, the tories have plenty of seats there & don't we know it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

While both partys have always had ups and downs, Labours ups with Atlee after World War II introducing many safety nets and so forth. There are a few basic examples of which of the two partys is competant when it comes to the economy.



1970's - Labour government under James Callaghan

• country in constant strikes.
• failing industry being kept open at taxpayers expense.
• rising taxes year on year.
• 80% tax on the rich which drove away business
• rising unemployment due to business leaving United Kingdom.
• United Kingdom has to appeal to the IMF.

1980's - Conservative government under Margaret Thatcher

• striking stopped.
• failing industry closed.
• new, modern industry begins to prosper.
• country begins to pull itself out of debt.
• taxes lowered all around for the poor and the rich.
• United Kingdom becomes one of the strongest economies in the world again.

1990's - Conservative government under John Major

• recession starts, monetary crisis due to European Union.
• United Kingdom fairs better than most other nations in recession.
• when out of office, Labour inherits one of the best debt records in history from this outgoing government.

2000's - Labour government under Tony Blair & Gordon Brown

• unsustainable spending plans introduced.
• Brown says he has abolished boom and bust.
• large portion of UK gold stocks sold when at 20 year low.
• debt spirals out of control.
• banks nationalised in crisis but still refuse to save struggling businesses/people and not lending loans out even though banks are owned by the government.
• government refuse to cut spending.

2010's - Conservative(?) government under David Cameron(?)

• when gaining office they face one of the largest debts to clear that any government has ever had to face, massive cuts will be vital for economic survival of this country.

Brown has done nothing for the economic climate. He is completely useless as Labour have always been. The quicker the election is and the Conservatives inevitably are victorious, the better. An election isn't going to disturb any stability, it's going to be a quick defeat and an immediate focus when David Cameron is running the country like it should be ran.

I agree one hundred percent, what has Gordon Brown actually done? - it seems nobody actually knows, he nationalised the banks which still refuse to lend out money to collapsing businesses' and has a chancellor who seems to think that tax will help the UK out of this hole of debt that we are sinking into.

I shall say it again though, for the Conservatives to be successful, Cameron needs to be radical like Thatcher was.

Thatcher was the best PM since Churchill.

I couldn't agree more, I have explained to them in various other threads why she was and what she did, but they refuse point blank to accept that if it wasn't for her they would be poor, no doubt about that. The only thign they can do when you talk to them about Margaret Thatcher is scream about the mines and how she crushed their little socialist state, when we all know that the mines were making a loss, so why would you keep them open? - that is the vital difference between socialist economies and capitalist economies, common sense.

Socialist economies include; North Korea, USSR, PROC (under Chairman Mao), Cuba.
Capitalist economies include; United States, United Kingdom, France, Germany, South Korea, PROC.

I can say with rather a lot of confidence, that socialism has failed and always will fail.

That is the FUNNIEST thing I have heard on this forum in a VERY long time.

@ Gomme, he didn't personally cause the rise but he certainly hasn't just sat back and let it happen.

It may be funny in your world, because you've been brought up to hate her. The economics and growth figures aren't laughing though.

[Hecktix]

My father believes Thatcher is one of the greatest figures in politics.

I've made my own political choices thanks. I haven't been "brought up" to hate Thatcher. I've made the decision to hate her through research.

No doubt you've been brought up right wing in a middle or upper class family?

[-:Undertaker:-]

My father believes Thatcher is one of the greatest figures in politics.

I've made my own political choices thanks. I haven't been "brought up" to hate Thatcher. I've made the decision to hate her through research.

No doubt you've been brought up right wing in a middle or upper class family?

I take back what I said about that part then.

I personally used to believe in everything I used to hear, then early on in year 7 I turned into a bit of a Liberal Democrat and supported higher taxes/global warming and so forth. Then I started looking into it and made my own choice over it. My dad actually tends to be a mix of right-wing and left-wing, he thinks industry should be nationalised again but I remind him of the 1970's (he wasn't here fully then as he lived in South Africa at that time). We are not rich, hes out of a job at the moment - I just support common sense and looking at the socialist failures throughout history, I can say with confidence that capitalism isn't perfect or fantastic, but i'd much rather have food to eat than have none to eat.

[Hecktix]

I take back what I said about that part then.

I personally used to believe in everything I used to hear, then early on in year 7 I turned into a bit of a Liberal Democrat and supported higher taxes/global warming and so forth. Then I started looking into it and made my own choice over it. My dad actually tends to be a mix of right-wing and left-wing, he thinks industry should be nationalised again but I remind him of the 1970's (he wasn't here fully then as he lived in South Africa at that time). We are not rich, hes out of a job at the moment - I just support common sense and looking at the socialist failures throughout history, I can say with confidence that capitalism isn't perfect or fantastic, but i'd much rather have food to eat than have none to eat.

Fair enough, I feel the same but I feel Labour have the ability to provide this. True Labour anyway, admittedly they have slipped recently.. well since the Iraq War tbh. I believe with the right kick up the backside Labour will really pull their finger out, whether the kick up the backside is the events of the past few weeks or the Conservatives winning the General Election it is irrelevant. I think what Labour lacks, and has lacked since 2004, is the charismatic leader that will move the party forward. I'm happy with Gordon's efforts against the recession, in all honesty i've seen worse annual budgets than the one Darling announced those few months ago.

As we've said before, we cannot know anything but the Labour Government that has Governed for a huge majority of our lives, as Tom said I doubt any of us can remember anything Political before 1997. My arguement for Labour is that they haven't really been a bad 12 years, your views may differ. I think it is inevitable we will be getting a Conservative Government at the next General Election and i'll be willing to give the Tories a chance in office, at the end of the day I can't fully criticise them (as you can't fully support them) as we don't know what they can do.. yet. Suppose we will see, it is marginally possible Labour will change the mind of a few people, because that's all it's got to take.. a few people.. because as I've said the Conservatives are not making gains they are benefitting from Labours drastic losses, as people who would have usually voted for Labour have just stayed at home, it is possible a General Election would bring these people out.

[Ostinato]

He didn't cause the rise, it's called other people and the silent majority getting people out of the recession. He's just sitting on the bench foreseeing it

Exactly. He hasn't actually done very much himself apart from flood the banks with never ending funds which they then use to pay out their multimillion bonuses to the idiots who caused it in the first place! Meanwhile, those who actually are out their and succesful are halving their salaries halved because of tax rises - which has blatently just been used to help fund the never ending list of expenses these people in power seem to think are required for them.

Brown has done very little in my opinion. He held a big meeting about it and has tried to lead the way in terms of PR so that when things do start to recover he can be the one who looks good and in turn he will look succesful and stay for another term. Unforutnately though it doesn't quite work like that, and an upturn in fortunes in regard to the economy was predicted long ago before Brown even said a word. (in his very boring, monotone voice may I add )

What annoys me most is that it is so blatent a good majority of this country no longer want to see him in power and he is aware of that. The result of the European Elections completely resounded that fact - particularly in regard to Wales! Despite such a strong desire to have him out though, he is once again completely ignoring and choosing to defy what the British public want.

At the end of the day this is supposed to be a democracy and it is evident that a majority of people who can actually vote do want Brown out. He should call a general election or stand down and ultimately let the public decide once and for all.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Fair enough, I feel the same but I feel Labour have the ability to provide this. True Labour anyway, admittedly they have slipped recently.. well since the Iraq War tbh. I believe with the right kick up the backside Labour will really pull their finger out, whether the kick up the backside is the events of the past few weeks or the Conservatives winning the General Election it is irrelevant. I think what Labour lacks, and has lacked since 2004, is the charismatic leader that will move the party forward. I'm happy with Gordon's efforts against the recession, in all honesty i've seen worse annual budgets than the one Darling announced those few months ago.

As we've said before, we cannot know anything but the Labour Government that has Governed for a huge majority of our lives, as Tom said I doubt any of us can remember anything Political before 1997. My arguement for Labour is that they haven't really been a bad 12 years, your views may differ. I think it is inevitable we will be getting a Conservative Government at the next General Election and i'll be willing to give the Tories a chance in office, at the end of the day I can't fully criticise them (as you can't fully support them) as we don't know what they can do.. yet. Suppose we will see, it is marginally possible Labour will change the mind of a few people, because that's all it's got to take.. a few people.. because as I've said the Conservatives are not making gains they are benefitting from Labours drastic losses, as people who would have usually voted for Labour have just stayed at home, it is possible a General Election would bring these people out.

I disagree with all that socialism stands for, but I am glad to see that you like me, want our original partys (Labour and Conservatives) to return to their idealogical stances that they seem to of lost in recent years. If the situation at the moment wasn't so bad, in a way i'd like to see the Conservatives lose the next General Election as then they would have to take a bloody good look at themselves and return to true Conservatism.

Exactly. He hasn't actually done very much himself apart from flood the banks with never ending funds which they then use to pay out their multimillion bonuses to the idiots who caused it in the first place! Meanwhile, those who actually are out their and succesful are halving their salaries halved because of tax rises - which has blatently just been used to help fund the never ending list of expenses these people in power seem to think are required for them.

Brown has done very little in my opinion. He held a big meeting about it and has tried to lead the way in terms of PR so that when things do start to recover he can be the one who looks good and in turn he will look succesful and stay for another term. Unforutnately though it doesn't quite work like that, and an upturn in fortunes in regard to the economy was predicted long ago before Brown even said a word. (in his very boring, monotone voice may I add )

What annoys me most is that it is so blatent a good majority of this country no longer want to see him in power and he is aware of that. The result of the European Elections completely resounded that fact - particularly in regard to Wales! Despite such a strong desire to have him out though, he is once again completely ignoring and choosing to defy what the British public want.

At the end of the day this is supposed to be a democracy and it is evident that a majority of people who can actually vote do want Brown out. He should call a general election or stand down and ultimately let the public decide once and for all.

A General Election now, but please, for the sake of the Conservative Party and the country, lets hope he hangs on and keeps Labour as low in the polls as he can, because if Labour win again I will just be astounded.

[jam666]

Fair enough, I feel the same but I feel Labour have the ability to provide this. True Labour anyway, admittedly they have slipped recently.. well since the Iraq War tbh. I believe with the right kick up the backside Labour will really pull their finger out, whether the kick up the backside is the events of the past few weeks or the Conservatives winning the General Election it is irrelevant. I think what Labour lacks, and has lacked since 2004, is the charismatic leader that will move the party forward. I'm happy with Gordon's efforts against the recession, in all honesty i've seen worse annual budgets than the one Darling announced those few months ago.

As we've said before, we cannot know anything but the Labour Government that has Governed for a huge majority of our lives, as Tom said I doubt any of us can remember anything Political before 1997. My arguement for Labour is that they haven't really been a bad 12 years, your views may differ. I think it is inevitable we will be getting a Conservative Government at the next General Election and i'll be willing to give the Tories a chance in office, at the end of the day I can't fully criticise them (as you can't fully support them) as we don't know what they can do.. yet. Suppose we will see, it is marginally possible Labour will change the mind of a few people, because that's all it's got to take.. a few people.. because as I've said the Conservatives are not making gains they are benefitting from Labours drastic losses, as people who would have usually voted for Labour have just stayed at home, it is possible a General Election would bring these people out.

Ok I have two problems with these statements. Firstly EVERYTHING is based on opinion and not fact. Its perfectly acceptable to voice your opinion and i have nothing against that however you cannot apply your opinions nationally However you have not expressed any evidense to support your opinions. This brings me to my second point.

Is the best excuse that someone can come up with they stayed at home? What a pathetic excuse this is for doing bad in the recent elections. Its rather obvious that the majority of britain believe that brown should go and that a general election should be called as witnessed by the recent results of the polls.

Why would a general election be any different. If these same groups of voters cannot be so called "botherd" to go out and vote and instead just sit at home why do you think a general election will bring them out of their shell so they can vote labour?. This is quite stupid because they will not vote labour as they could not be botherd to go and vote in the local and european elections. instead they just stayed at home.