Conservatives remain divided over EU

[-:Undertaker:-]

Shadow business secretary Ken Clarke says the Tories will not reopen negotiations on the Lisbon Treaty if the Irish back it in a new referendum.

The treaty was rejected last year by Ireland, but could hold another vote.

The Tories have said they will call a referendum if they win power before all EU states ratify it, but had not said what happens if the Irish vote yes.

Tory party central office denied its position had changed but Labour said Tory policy was "in disarray".

Tory leader David Cameron has previously only said that if the treaty is ratified by all EU member states before a Conservative government comes to power he would "not let matters rest".

His party argues that the treaty was an EU Constitution in all but name.

"The Conservatives have no intention of holding a referendum on the Lisbon treaty and all their promises during the European election campaign about holding one can now be seen to be sheer, brass-necked dishonesty." - Nigel Farage (UKIP Leader)

Why can none of the main political partys (Conservative & Labour) support what the people want and what we were promised, we want a vote on this treaty which gives ever-more power to the unelected eurocrats in Brussels. The Irish are being made to vote again - so much for democracy.

The French said NO.
The Dutch said NO.
The Irish said NO.

How many more times must we say NO to the European Union, at least Hitler was elected by the people whereas the EU hasn't been elected by the people.

I think now i'm ever more doubtful about David Camerons Conservatives now. I know if it came to a General Election tommorow my vote would not go to the Conservatives and would go to UKIP. To be honest maybe the Conservatives need to lose the next General Election again so then they will have to have a bloody good look at themselves and then maybe we'd actually get a Conservative Party which is conservative, rather than a follow-on to New Labour which it seems to be going that way, sadly.

I just hope that Ken Clarkes comments are not actually Conservative policy and hopefully the Czech President Mr Klaus can hold off signing the Lisbon Treaty as long as possible. The Conservative website seems very anti-EU which is good, however I just wish they would slam Clarkes comments and set the record straight.

What do other Conservative supporters think about this?

[Fez]

at least Hitler was elected by the people whereas the EU hasn't been elected by the people.

Don't ever compare anything to what Hitler did. The EU's power isn't causing genocide now is it?

[ifuseekamy]

Any political party will be for the EU, saying they're against it is a means of getting popular. Of course when they are popular they will feed us the benefits of the EU, and the majority will believe this because they'll think "oh well they hated the EU before but now they like it so obviously it is good". It's frustrating that the enormous flaw of democracy is that everyone is affected by the idiocy of others but that's how it works.

[ashyboy999]

actually its a very good comparison i think. we dont want the EU. every main political party is doing the EXACT opposite to what the british people want. which is why im not suprised in the slightest that people like the BNP have been elected. when you cant trust labour and tory where do you turn? thats the predicament the british people faced this month will have to face again at march next year if not sooner....

genocide hmm i wouldnt put it passed them seens as they carry no responsibility for their actions! looks at our country for goodness sake the law is corrupt, human rights means absolutely nothing anymore, soveriegnity is a thing of the past and whats more, get this our traditions which we celebrated for centuries like christmas and st georges day are protested at by immigrants with different religions because THEY dont agree!!!! all from being a member of the EU

the EU can change any law in our country they are basically the rulers of this land, new labour, the queen are overpowered by the EU!! HOW DARE THEY !!!

people wonder why the russians hate the EU, just look at our country now and you will see why. knife crime and gun crime id even go as far as that being caused by the EU for one simple fact. they can change our laws whenever they please and take no responsibility for the consquences it may cause. like for instance parenting, a decade ago you could discapline and bring up your kids right. now if u did that youd have them taken away and u imprisioned and its the EU that has implemented that. for child rights mallarky and what do we have now? children as young as 12 killing each other!

[jam666]

Why can none of the main political partys (Conservative & Labour) support what the people want and what we were promised, we want a vote on this treaty which gives ever-more power to the unelected eurocrats in Brussels. The Irish are being made to vote again - so much for democracy.

The French said NO.
The Dutch said NO.
The Irish said NO.

How many more times must we say NO to the European Union, at least Hitler was elected by the people whereas the EU hasn't been elected by the people.

I think now i'm ever more doubtful about David Camerons Conservatives now. I know if it came to a General Election tommorow my vote would not go to the Conservatives and would go to UKIP. To be honest maybe the Conservatives need to lose the next General Election again so then they will have to have a bloody good look at themselves and then maybe we'd actually get a Conservative Party which is conservative, rather than a follow-on to New Labour which it seems to be going that way, sadly.

I just hope that Ken Clarkes comments are not actually Conservative policy and hopefully the Czech President Mr Klaus can hold off signing the Lisbon Treaty as long as possible. The Conservative website seems very anti-EU which is good, however I just wish they would slam Clarkes comments and set the record straight.

What do other Conservative supporters think about this?

Ok, where shall i start?

This is hardly new news. The Conservatives have always said they will hold a referendum on the treaty if they come into power before the lisbon treaty is signed so i dont know why people are shocked by clarkes comments as he is just trying to save his sinking ship (labour party) however they have always said that if they do not come into power before the treaty is signed it would be very DIFFICULT but not impossible to hold a referendum then. Therefore they have not ruled out the possibility of calling a referendum if the treaty gets signed.

Your telling me you would rather have another 4 years of labour compared to 4 years of a fresh Conservative party? I certainly know which one I'd rather have.

The Conservatives are hardly follow on new-labour.... this is absolutely pathetic to even suggest this as The Conservatives do not like labour as they themselves believe that labour has wrecked this country beyond belief.

Clarkes comments are not conservative party policy. He is simply trying to stir up trouble yet again. Please refer to above as to why.

I hate to say this but why even bother voting UKIP at the next general election? Its rather obvious they have no chance of winning. Fair enough they may gain some MP's however the vote you cast for UKIP could of being the difference between another 4 years of labour or not.

[GommeInc]

Get the monarch back in power. England has very rarely had any problems with a King or Queen as leader, and at least she has respect!

[ashyboy999]

Ok, where shall i start?

This is hardly new news. The Conservatives have always said they will hold a referendum on the treaty if they come into power before the lisbon treaty is signed so i dont know why people are shocked by clarkes comments as he is just trying to save his sinking ship (labour party) however they have always said that if they do not come into power before the treaty is signed it would be very DIFFICULT but not impossible to hold a referendum then. Therefore they have not ruled out the possibility of calling a referendum if the treaty gets signed.

Your telling me you would rather have another 4 years of labour compared to 4 years of a fresh Conservative party? I certainly know which one I'd rather have.

The Conservatives are hardly follow on new-labour.... this is absolutely pathetic to even suggest this as The Conservatives do not like labour as they themselves believe that labour has wrecked this country beyond belief.

Clarkes comments are not conservative party policy. He is simply trying to stir up trouble yet again. Please refer to above as to why.

I hate to say this but why even bother voting UKIP at the next general election? Its rather obvious they have no chance of winning. Fair enough they may gain some MP's however the vote you cast for UKIP could of being the difference between another 4 years of labour or not.

so are u trying to say thatcher didnt mess up this country beyond belief? they can hardly accuse labour really with their track record. thats why this election is such a difficult one because niether party can be trusted to be fair. the exspenses scandal is more centred around labour but tory were in on it too. they wouldnt have to "clean up" if they wernt

its a good suggestion because when tory came to birmingham to try to get votes for next year all they talked about is what labour wanted to achieve. we elected them for a referendum on the EU plus a number of other reasons but never got any. tory are using a cheap tactic which is promising us everything labour wanted to achieve before we elected them that is not david cameron wanting to be a tory leader with conservative views thats david cameron copying labour exactly!

people are voting UKIP etc because they want our soverignity back they want democrocy and we cant get that from labour and tory we'll get it elsewhere!

[jam666]

so are u trying to say thatcher didnt mess up this country beyond belief? they can hardly accuse labour really with their track record. thats why this election is such a difficult one because niether party can be trusted to be fair. the exspenses scandal is more centred around labour but tory were in on it too. they wouldnt have to "clean up" if they wernt

its a good suggestion because when tory came to birmingham to try to get votes for next year all they talked about is what labour wanted to achieve. we elected them for a referendum on the EU plus a number of other reasons but never got any. tory are using a cheap tactic which is promising us everything labour wanted to achieve before we elected them that is not david cameron wanting to be a tory leader with conservative views thats david cameron copying labour exactly!

people are voting UKIP etc because they want our soverignity back they want democrocy and we cant get that from labour and tory we'll get it elsewhere!

Thatcher was one of the best leaders this country has ever seen. She let millions of people buy their council houses which in turn created todays property market (not the downturn as that cant be helped).

Im not saying UKIP are a bad party and id vote for them myself however im simply saying there is no chance they will win a general election so therefore it would be best in my OPINION to vote for a more mainstream party which has policys that YOU like and that will stand a CHANCE of winning the next general election.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Don't ever compare anything to what Hitler did. The EU's power isn't causing genocide now is it?

I am not comparing the Third Reichs genocide policy to the European Unions genocide policy, as the EU does not have one. I stated very clearly they are comparable/different in terms that one was elected and one was not.

Ok, where shall i start?

This is hardly new news. The Conservatives have always said they will hold a referendum on the treaty if they come into power before the lisbon treaty is signed so i dont know why people are shocked by clarkes comments as he is just trying to save his sinking ship (labour party) however they have always said that if they do not come into power before the treaty is signed it would be very DIFFICULT but not impossible to hold a referendum then. Therefore they have not ruled out the possibility of calling a referendum if the treaty gets signed.

Your telling me you would rather have another 4 years of labour compared to 4 years of a fresh Conservative party? I certainly know which one I'd rather have.

The Conservatives are hardly follow on new-labour.... this is absolutely pathetic to even suggest this as The Conservatives do not like labour as they themselves believe that labour has wrecked this country beyond belief.

Clarkes comments are not conservative party policy. He is simply trying to stir up trouble yet again. Please refer to above as to why.

I hate to say this but why even bother voting UKIP at the next general election? Its rather obvious they have no chance of winning. Fair enough they may gain some MP's however the vote you cast for UKIP could of being the difference between another 4 years of labour or not.

The point I am making, is why are the Conservatives not slamming Kenneth Clarkes comments if they are his opinion and not policy. They are not being strong enough on EU policy and it is worrying me as Conservative supporter.

"Therefore they have not ruled out the possibility of calling a referendum if the treaty gets signed." - My point exactly, they are not clear enough and I want a straight yes or no answer because we know as soon as they get in office they will most likely say no, but refuse to say no before the election as that would lose them votes.

Of course I wouldn't want another four years of Labour compared to a Conservative government, but if it ment in another four years having a Conservative Party with a Thatcherite doctrine/leader then i'd consider it. The situation at the moment is too serious for Labour to carry on with anyway, because yet again they have ruined the economy.

They are comparable to New Labour, they do not mention traditional Conservative policies enough and prefer to bang on about green issues which in my opinion and middle englands opinion (core tory base) don't even believe exists.

People wrote UKIP off in the European Election, the point is that the stronger UKIP get the more influence it will have on Conservative policy, and I want a return to Thatcherism that this country needs.

I want straight Conservative policies, because if this upcoming Conservative government is a failure then I as a tory supporter really have no backup against Labour support and quite frankly i'll be disillusioned with the whole lot of them. To be successful, Cameron needs to be radical.

Thatcher was one of the best leaders this country has ever seen. She let millions of people buy their council houses which in turn created todays property market (not the downturn as that cant be helped).

Im not saying UKIP are a bad party and id vote for them myself however im simply saying there is no chance they will win a general election so therefore it would be best in my OPINION to vote for a more mainstream party which has policys that YOU like and that will stand a CHANCE of winning the next general election.

I agree Thatcher was the best Prime Minister we have ever had, better than Churchill in my mind. The sad thing is, that the very thing that finished off Thatcher was the European Union itself.

[ifuseekamy]

Get the monarch back in power. England has very rarely had any problems with a King or Queen as leader, and at least she has respect!

It would be nice if she had more political sway considering the monarchy doesn't take crap and actually has patriotic integrity. I mean if the queen had any say in the EU giving our territory away you know Spain would've been *****slapped by the navy.