You really want him as PM...

[leah]

I thought I was the only one that didn't agree with Undertaker, now I realize so does the whole forum!

I agree with him. Labour have completely ruined this country, and we need something new. I believe that the conservatives can start to rebuild the country again. I think we should at least give them a chance without backing the party that trashed everything.

Brown > Cameron :eusa_danc

No.

[Wolves]

You obviously have not a clue what you're on about, do you know what the conservatives were like before labour come into power? please, stop barking up the wrong tree.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You obviously have not a clue what you're on about, do you know what the conservatives were like before labour come into power? please, stop barking up the wrong tree.

You mean saving the country from financial destruction from 1979 and leaving one of the best financial situations behind for Labour in 1997?

Thank you Leah.

[alexxxxx]

No, i can't keep posting on pointless debates forever. Because they are circular. You claim to know about economics but you fail to recognise the EU's free-trade ideas, which you bang on about. You don't understand how investment by the givernment can increase national income and that you only understand the basic principals of the circle of income. So when I argue that nationalisation of certain industries (ie rail, bus) i get told that it hurts the economy. You fail to see that the EU does NOT say who makes what and wwhere it goes, it isn't a command economy. It's quota's, limits, subsidies are to keep a steady price in the marketplace for consumers and farmers/producers.

You keep on banging on about a refferendum, which was for the Constitution. Believe it or not, but the constitution is not the lisbon treaty. Much of it is the same, but it is not the same. You don't understand how democracy works in the way that you elect your MPs to do a job, you can't have refferedum on every single law/treaty as everyone doesn't have the time to educate themselves well enough. That's why you elect people to REPRESENT you. The EU IS democratic.

You can't (or don't) back up your arguments with facts, opinions aren't the same. You blind yourself with nationalism and the war and the good ol' days to see what the USA are doing to us (one-way treaties, making us their bum-buddies in pointless and costly wars that don't serve our interests, poorly regulated banking codes, corrupt governments) and what the EU are doing to us (free/common market, eu-wide work etc, pooling sovereignty). I KNOW there are benefits with being friendly with the USA I KNOW there are problems with how the EU works.

Frankly, you sound like what a daily mail would be if they were a person. A xenophobe with dodgy, unfounded arguments, a far-right bias who cries at 'broken britain' and how it's the fault of ZaNULIABORE nazis.

Alright.

PS. i'm not a labour supporter.

[-:Undertaker:-]

They are only circular because you ignore it all and bang on about these made up dreams such as a European Federal State and how our economy would collapse without the European Union. The European Union does NOT free up trade, it has a command economy structure similar to the idea of the Soviet Unions economy, if it didn't then it wouldnt exist as free trade would be between individual nations and not one trading bloc - that is part of a command economy. The farmers and fishermen DO NOT WANT THE EU & ITS REGULATIONS - why is it so hard for you and the EU to UNDERSTAND AND LISTEN to that!?.

The Libson Treaty is exactly the SAME as the Constitution, even SUPPORTERS of the EU and EU officals have said it is around 98% THE SAME, just minus the badge and embelm. I shall ask yet again, why is it so hard for you are the EU to understand people DO NOT WANT THE EU.

Democratic? - do we elect the Commission? - NO WE DO NOT. That is not democratic at all. No one chose it, it refuses to give us a referendum on whether or not we want the European Union or the Libson Treaty - you have a strange idea of democracy, one similar to Chinese/Soviet democracy in which you have one party which means no choice, then again at least they get to vote for it. We didn't say a referendum on every treaty, but when so many soverign powers/reform is to take place in a system which can overrule our sovereign parliament WE WANT A SAY.

You constantly use this arguement, oh god we have to be all centralised and together to survive this cruel new world! - no, you are wrong, if anything the world has got more de-centralised and argument that we need to sign away our sovereign powers away to a foreign and unelected body is absolute rubbish. I still do not see why you cannot face the fact that although you think their are benefits, the people of Europe still DO NOT WANT EUROPEAN UNION. Three countries were given a say on the treaty and not to the delight of the ruling governments in those countrys, out of the THREE countrys that were asked, THREE said NO. To put that in simpler terms; out of the poll sample of them three nations 100% of the countrys asked do not want more powers given to the EU, 3/3 TURNED THE EU DOWN.

What you do know is that people do not want the European Union, yet you and Labour just carry on as usual and ignore what people want. I am nationalist of this country you are right, because I am proud that we fought a world war and a cold war to fight the very thing that we are signing up to today, an unelected foreign superstate. Did we want to be ruled by the Third Reich? - NO. Did we want to be ruled by the Soviet Union? - NO. Do we want to be ruled by the European Union? - NO.

You and the European Union know the answer is NO from the majority of Europe, and that is why you are making Ireland vote yet again until it comes back with the answer that the European Union wants. If you and the EU are so sure of its support and how great it is, why not do the honourable thing and put the matter to bed forever - LET US CHOOSE.

I am not an xenophobe, i'm a europhobe.

[jam666]

No, i can't keep posting on pointless debates forever. Because they are circular. You claim to know about economics but you fail to recognise the EU's free-trade ideas, which you bang on about. You don't understand how investment by the givernment can increase national income and that you only understand the basic principals of the circle of income. So when I argue that nationalisation of certain industries (ie rail, bus) i get told that it hurts the economy. You fail to see that the EU does NOT say who makes what and wwhere it goes, it isn't a command economy. It's quota's, limits, subsidies are to keep a steady price in the marketplace for consumers and farmers/producers.

You keep on banging on about a refferendum, which was for the Constitution. Believe it or not, but the constitution is not the lisbon treaty. Much of it is the same, but it is not the same. You don't understand how democracy works in the way that you elect your MPs to do a job, you can't have refferedum on every single law/treaty as everyone doesn't have the time to educate themselves well enough. That's why you elect people to REPRESENT you. The EU IS democratic.

You can't (or don't) back up your arguments with facts, opinions aren't the same. You blind yourself with nationalism and the war and the good ol' days to see what the USA are doing to us (one-way treaties, making us their bum-buddies in pointless and costly wars that don't serve our interests, poorly regulated banking codes, corrupt governments) and what the EU are doing to us (free/common market, eu-wide work etc, pooling sovereignty). I KNOW there are benefits with being friendly with the USA I KNOW there are problems with how the EU works.

Frankly, you sound like what a daily mail would be if they were a person. A xenophobe with dodgy, unfounded arguments, a far-right bias who cries at 'broken britain' and how it's the fault of ZaNULIABORE nazis.

Alright.

PS. i'm not a labour supporter.

Ok, Point number one. How do we not understand investment? Its not exactly difficult to know, infact its common sense to know that when your in debt you dont spend more and get yourself more in debt. You get yourself out of it!

Nationalisation of some industries is a VERY bad idea. What do you think Thatcher did? She Privatised industry which BENEFITED the economy. So of course people argue with you as then the public does not have control!

You say the EU is democratic? What a foolish thing to say, MEP's are elected yes but i hardly call the EU Comission elected... Please rephrase your sentance.

You say we cant or wont support our arugments with facts? Ha! how stupid this is. I certainly remember me saying this about you and your labour friends a week or so ago!. Atleast we actually do give evidense and things that support our claims, we dont go giving into something like yourself and your labour friends with all guns blazing going OMGZ LABOUR IS TEH BEST! When it clearly isnt.

Im afraid i dont read the daily mail. I read the Independant as I find that it is more factual.

Your not a labour supporter? Ha! this is the best phrase ive heard all day, if you were not a labour supporter then why are you trying to defend them so much?.

[Wolves]

They are only circular because you ignore it all and bang on about these made up dreams such as a European Federal State and how our economy would collapse without the European Union. The European Union does NOT free up trade, it has a command economy structure similar to the idea of the Soviet Unions economy, if it didn't then it wouldnt exist as free trade would be between individual nations and not one trading bloc - that is part of a command economy. The farmers and fishermen DO NOT WANT THE EU & ITS REGULATIONS - why is it so hard for you and the EU to UNDERSTAND AND LISTEN to that!?.

The Libson Treaty is exactly the SAME as the Constitution, even SUPPORTERS of the EU and EU officals have said it is around 98% THE SAME, just minus the badge and embelm. I shall ask yet again, why is it so hard for you are the EU to understand people DO NOT WANT THE EU.

Democratic? - do we elect the Commission? - NO WE DO NOT. That is not democratic at all. No one chose it, it refuses to give us a referendum on whether or not we want the European Union or the Libson Treaty - you have a strange idea of democracy, one similar to Chinese/Soviet democracy in which you have one party which means no choice, then again at least they get to vote for it. We didn't say a referendum on every treaty, but when so many soverign powers/reform is to take place in a system which can overrule our sovereign parliament WE WANT A SAY.

You constantly use this arguement, oh god we have to be all centralised and together to survive this cruel new world! - no, you are wrong, if anything the world has got more de-centralised and argument that we need to sign away our sovereign powers away to a foreign and unelected body is absolute rubbish. I still do not see why you cannot face the fact that although you think their are benefits, the people of Europe still DO NOT WANT EUROPEAN UNION. Three countries were given a say on the treaty and not to the delight of the ruling governments in those countrys, out of the THREE countrys that were asked, THREE said NO. To put that in simpler terms; out of the poll sample of them three nations 100% of the countrys asked do not want more powers given to the EU, 3/3 TURNED THE EU DOWN.

What you do know is that people do not want the European Union, yet you and Labour just carry on as usual and ignore what people want. I am nationalist of this country you are right, because I am proud that we fought a world war and a cold war to fight the very thing that we are signing up to today, an unelected foreign superstate. Did we want to be ruled by the Third Reich? - NO. Did we want to be ruled by the Soviet Union? - NO. Do we want to be ruled by the European Union? - NO.

You and the European Union know the answer is NO from the majority of Europe, and that is why you are making Ireland vote yet again until it comes back with the answer that the European Union wants. If you and the EU are so sure of its support and how great it is, why not do the honourable thing and put the matter to bed forever - LET US CHOOSE.

I am not an xenophobe, i'm a europhobe.

Bloomin heck, every time you post you turn it into a speech, you try and make yourself sound like David Cameron and it doens't work, give your views normally instead of posting speeches every time your in a debate.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Bloomin heck, every time you post you turn it into a speech, you try and make yourself sound like David Cameron and it doens't work, give your views normally instead of posting speeches every time your in a debate.

I assume the same applies to alexxxx then?

I can write as much as I want, better than what you have come up with which are one liners which you throw out a claim, I reply to that claim with a one liner to match it and you ignore it still. I shall ask again and this time do not ignore me; You mean saving the country from financial destruction from 1979 and leaving one of the best financial situations behind for Labour in 1997?

[Japan]

Anyone who comes after Blair is going to look rubbish anyway
We're in the middle of a recession and Blair left at exactly the right time so all the fingers are pointed at Gordon. David cameron is far too smug and his policies favour the upper classes rather than the majority.
TBH all of the main political parties are full of crap.

[Wolves]

I assume the same applies to alexxxx then?

I can write as much as I want, better than what you have come up with which are one liners which you throw out a claim, I reply to that claim with a one liner to match it and you ignore it still. I shall ask again and this time do not ignore me; You mean saving the country from financial destruction from 1979 and leaving one of the best financial situations behind for Labour in 1997?

You answered your own question, maybe I don't write huge essays unlike you cause I have better things to do than get pissed off over politics.

There you go, a three sentence answer. :rolleyes:

Short but sweet.