Which political view is best for Britain?

[-:Undertaker:-]

British troops were sent into Iraq under false pretences, some have died for the lies fed to them and for what? Oil reserves.

Capitalism can manifest greed and we see that everyday. Crime caused by money, social hireachy determined by how big your wallet is, happiness seems to ride on the thing.

Its wrong to say socialism as an ideal is a bad thing as it isnt, people twist such a thing and make it something it isnt. The same happens with Capitalism and people have made that point clearly so its naive to dismiss it completely.

Social hierarchy exists under and system, infact under a capitalist system it is more equal and spread out as in a socialist country you have everyone poor, with the few at the top having the power and the money. In a capitalist country you have the majority well off and able to live a comfortable life with luxaries and a decent house and most of all; the vast majority of people have bread on the table when they arrive home.

Socialism hasn't been twisted at all into something it isn't, we can all see it failed and always has failed at every chance its been given.

In a capitalist system if you have a brain, work hard - the chances are you will better yourself off compared to someone who is lazy and would rather sit about all day living off the state - that is as fair as it can get whereas in a socialist country, it doesn't reward hard work at all. Why would you train to be a doctor to recieve a equal life standard to someone who is a dustman? - you wouldn't.

[Jordy]

We all agree the Iraqi invasion was wrong and also that capitalism isn't perfect. I can also concede that communism is a very good ideology, but sadly humans have things like "aspirations" where they want to be better than the rest, not to be equal.

In socialist countries you have poverty on a whole new level to that of a capitalist society, in China and North Korea you have people dying of starvation and same goes for Russia because of it's Soviet days. You may get the elderly struggling to pay bills in this country but we don't have millions of entire families starving.

The only reason you get less crime in socialist countries is because they've got brutal punishments throughout, in China there's about 80 things which warrant the death sentence if I remember correctly. Crime exists no matter what the economic scale, it's the punishments which stop the crime. For example in Saudi Arabia, a capitalist country, for robbery you'd get your hand chopped off, the robbery rates in Saudi Arabia are minuscule as a result. I'm not saying we should implement such strong punishments, the point is that crime does not depend on the economic system and crime exists because humans "aspire" to be better.

[Coheed&Cambria]

I'm rather confused by the poll.

Capitalism & Socialism are pretty much economic systems meanwhile Communism & Democracy are forms of government to an extent.

No brainer really, Capitalism is the only system which works, it's not perfect but there's nothing which is anywhere near as good. Democracy obviously works well as it's served the West very well for centuries and Communism is clearly a failure, just look at the Soviet Union.

Totally agree.

[Mentor]

They have, the purges it had against so called 'enemies of the state' and the poverty caused by socialism. Socialism may say it is that but it is not, as Thatcher said; there is no such thing as society. If you lose your home, who do you rely on? - the state. If you need welfare who do you rely on? - the state.

This never happened, unless your confusing the so called communist (a totally different system) in russia? Which never even came close to communism in its correct form?
I think being a dicatorship was the issue with that, same with with the Natzis?

I'm also guessing you choose to ignore the part where after communism ended and russia and its former parts became capitalist about the 100s or millions of old folks whos died as the state was no longer looking after them. Left to die on the streets - capitalism sure never killed anyone o.0

It has not, hardly any country is ever fully capitalist, there is always aid/welfare in capitalist countrys at various levels. Those who died in the gulags, died trying to cross the Berlin Wall and so on died to try and get into a capitalist society.

From Germany - about as far from a socialist country as is imaginable?. Britain, we were the socialists?

[Jordy]

This never happened, unless your confusing the so called communist (a totally different system) in russia? Which never even came close to communism in its correct form?
I think being a dicatorship was the issue with that, same with with the Natzis?

I'm also guessing you choose to ignore the part where after communism ended and russia and its former parts became capitalist about the 100s or millions of old folks whos died as the state was no longer looking after them. Left to die on the streets - capitalism sure never killed anyone o.0


From Germany - about as far from a socialist country as is imaginable?. Britain, we were the socialists?

Oh come on you know what he meant. West germany was very capitalist, as is the current germany. East germany however was very socialist as it was run by the Soviet Union. The UK was very close to becoming a socialist state in the 1970s also.

As for all these people dying after communism, it just proves that even capitalism can't do enough to correct the socialism. The Soviet Union was communist for 80 years, the nations were completely crippled and bankrupt, Capitalism can't just sort it all immediately and make everything jolly.

Just shows the devastation of socialism can't be easily sorted

[-:Undertaker:-]

This never happened, unless your confusing the so called communist (a totally different system) in russia? Which never even came close to communism in its correct form?
I think being a dicatorship was the issue with that, same with with the Natzis?

I'm also guessing you choose to ignore the part where after communism ended and russia and its former parts became capitalist about the 100s or millions of old folks whos died as the state was no longer looking after them. Left to die on the streets - capitalism sure never killed anyone o.0


From Germany - about as far from a socialist country as is imaginable?. Britain, we were the socialists?

The Soivet Union was socialist, socialism and communism are basically the same system. There is no correct form of socialism/communism, it doesn't allow other partys/capitalist ideas/business to set up to therefore it is a dictatorship. There have been so many countrys that have tried socialism and it has failed every time, in one way it does what its supposed to do by making everyone poor and hungry, so I guess you could say everyone did end up equal under socialism, poor or dead.

Where are all these mass starvations/deaths then when communism collapsed across the east? - we've never heard of them and as far as I know they certainly didn't happen, life has never been better in the east and was only held back because of socialism - how else do you explain the difference that was from western europe and eastern europe?

Infact even today West Germany is still having to subsidise East Germany because of the mess socialism made on that part of the country, and they predict that if socialism in North Korea collapses and Korea is once again united, the South will have near-economic collapse because of the investment it will have to pump into North Korea.

As for the facist Third Reich, facism is a mix of both socialism and capitalism. Britain before the end of world war two was very capitalist, after world war two nearly everything was nationalised and post-war decline set in which saw the Empire fall apart and this country fall behind others, from a world power to a weak power - until the 1980s when capitalism saved us.

[Jippz]

The Soivet Union was socialist, socialism and communism are basically the same system. There is no correct form of socialism/communism, it doesn't allow other partys/capitalist ideas/business to set up to therefore it is a dictatorship. There have been so many countrys that have tried socialism and it has failed every time, in one way it does what its supposed to do by making everyone poor and hungry, so I guess you could say everyone did end up equal under socialism, poor or dead.

Where are all these mass starvations/deaths then when communism collapsed across the east? - we've never heard of them and as far as I know they certainly didn't happen, life has never been better in the east and was only held back because of socialism - how else do you explain the difference that was from western europe and eastern europe?

Infact even today West Germany is still having to subsidise East Germany because of the mess socialism made on that part of the country, and they predict that if socialism in North Korea collapses and Korea is once again united, the South will have near-economic collapse because of the investment it will have to pump into North Korea.

As for the facist Third Reich, facism is a mix of both socialism and capitalism. Britain before the end of world war two was very capitalist, after world war two nearly everything was nationalised and post-war decline set in which saw the Empire fall apart and this country fall behind others, from a world power to a weak power - until the 1980s when capitalism saved us.

To say they are basically the same thing is incredibly ignorant. I'm a socialist and i strongly disagree with the extremes of communism. And btw it's spelled fascist.

[Jordy]

To say they are basically the same thing is incredibly ignorant. I'm a socialist and i strongly disagree with the extremes of communism. And btw it's spelled fascist.

Well the only real examples of socialism are in the form of communist governments, all of which are failures. Although socialism has never truly been tried in a real democracy, logic dictates that because it's never been a success in the past so it's not worth trying out.

Britain in the 70s was close to socialism and I hardly need to point out how badly the country was doing then, going to the IMF, being controlled by unions, continual strikes and virtually bankrupt while all decent businesses were moving abroad.

[-:Undertaker:-]

To say they are basically the same thing is incredibly ignorant. I'm a socialist and i strongly disagree with the extremes of communism. And btw it's spelled fascist.

The nations we called communist were actually socialist, North Korea has socialist in it formal name, the USSR means Union of Soviet Socialist Republics so no, its not incredibly ignorant at all. The forms of socialism and communismk are practically the same so much so that I cant even think of a significant difference between the two.

Well the only real examples of socialism are in the form of communist governments, all of which are failures. Although socialism has never truly been tried in a real democracy, logic dictates that because it's never been a success in the past so it's not worth trying out.

Britain in the 70s was close to socialism and I hardly need to point out how badly the country was doing then, going to the IMF, being controlled by unions, continual strikes and virtually bankrupt while all decent businesses were moving abroad.

According to the socialists on here we should try it again, however when there are nationwide blackouts, food shortages and general decay, not to mentioning their pranets businesses/shops being nationalised and taken away by the government - they'd soon be singing a different tune.

Socialism is pure greed, the idea that because you cant/havent got something like your own business, no one else should have either - so arrogant.

[Jippz]

The most common argument i've come across for capitalism is that whilst socialism looks good on paper there are too many money-hungry people in the world. However you seem to be one of those arrogant people who actually would rather poor people die than rich people have to settle for merely living.