Suggestion to bring in more members.

[StefanWolves]

they would spam, it would encourage people to post in most threads even ones which they don't know about or posting pointless msgs like 'good work!' 'nicely done 10/10' and junk just to get the extra post count where the wouldn't before so a massive increase in spam, so thats why i think competitions based on posts etc are junk

but thats what the 'spam' section is for.

[scottish]

EVERY section would be spammed not just spam....

[FlyingJesus]

Well it seems it's a bit more active than HxF is at the moment, and no, I can't find that data, cause it doesn't exist, just going by what I see on the two forums anyway.

Postcount data doesn't exist? News to me, I thought it was something quite visible

If you actually read what I quoted in that part of my post, you'd see I wasn't talking about that part.

Oh? -

http://www.habboxforum.com/memberlist.php?&pp=30&order=asc&sort=posts&page=95 9

^ 959 pages of registered members with 10 or less posts, of which

http://www.habboxforum.com/memberlist.php?&pp=30&order=asc&sort=posts&page=57 1

^ 571 pages of registered members without a single post

Seeing as though there are 45,000 registered members on this forum, those numbers you just posted are microscopic.

I think that's exactly what you were talking about, unless you quoted that part of my post for no reason. It's 959 and 571 PAGES not members, at 30 members per page

I don't see what you are getting at? We could turn this 'much needed traffic' into 'much needed members & traffic'

Not if traffic decreases as I've clearly been saying will happen. If you don't see what I was getting at there you can't have been paying much attention

I was thinking about the numbers that we may pull in because of this feature, maybe I was optimistic, but over time it will get the forum A LOT more members, and hopefully more active members - fact.

Fact? Thought you said earlier you couldn't prove it. Also you can't place fact with what "may" happen and you being optimistic as you have, especially if the figures you're putting out are entirely unfounded and extremely unlikely

[StefanWolves]

Sorry but how can you prove by doing this we WILL loose traffic? there is nothing important about traffic anyway, because they're not registered members.

[Immenseman]

I am struggling to see why it's being opposed. A fact was confirmed the other day by Nvr which we all thought was happening - HxF is losing members and not as many people are signing up. Now although this may not be the most ideal solution to that issue I see it as a certain short term solution whilst management pull together and propose some longer term ideas. I understand they're busy and don't want to put them under any pressure to do that soon ~ it does need to be done though.

If I had my way - I know it'll be opposed - just saying I would remove post approvals completely. We have a moderation team who can deal with spam posts or any other inappropriate first 15 posts ~ like they do for any other user. Also, I would let guests view 10 threads then make it mandatory for them to sign up if they desire to see any more. We have proof it works on Habbo Forums as both me and Jen have highlighted it's what made us sign up to CHF and I don't know about her but I have 600 posts on there now.

I don't see the harm in trying this out, especially when it's been made unequivocal that new members are needed. Whether they'll be active posters or not is yet to be seen. As I see it there are two options and they are:

1) Carry on things as they are now. Not many people signing up. People leaving on a regular basis. Forum activity continues to slump.

2) Implement new ideas - even if it's only a vain hope they will improve things. Nothing to lose.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

[FlyingJesus]

there is nothing important about traffic anyway, because they're not registered members.

And here's the part where you show what you know... Ad revenue. Quite an important part of the forum seeing as how it's become a large amount of what pays to keep it running since the whole VIP shutdown. Also hits generate more hits because of general popularity and search rating - fairly useful if you want more people here

[StefanWolves]

And here's the part where you show what you know... Ad revenue. Quite an important part of the forum seeing as how it's become a large amount of what pays to keep it running since the whole VIP shutdown. Also hits generate more hits because of general popularity and search rating - fairly useful if you want more people here

Christ, well forgive me for not being totally on the ball when it comes to forums and how to manage a website? all I'm doing is suggesting how to bring in more members, and here you are criticising my every post. Forgive me for trying to help the community. So shoot me.

Also, I like how you just totally ignored immenseman's post.

[FlyingJesus]

I'm not attacking you I'm just putting across my reasons for not thinking it's a great idea. As for not quoting Jake, he hasn't said anything I haven't already covered really other than post approvals which is already being lowered (and my opinion on that has been in other threads). Him and Jen being somewhat active members of CHF isn't really indicative of totally new members as they've already been part of Habbo forums and communities for a long time and had connections there anyway through other members. Getting people from other fansites to join isn't at all in the same league as totally new membership

We need real lures to make people want to join, not just making them register a name to view things they currently look at but don't care enough about to comment on

[GommeInc]

I think you misunderstood the point a little bit, the point being made that some guests, upon being forced to register, may opt to stop browsing the forum instead of registering an account. I agree that POSTING members are more useful, but I don't think that posting guests are. I suppose seeing who is viewing a thread is useful but does it matter if you have no idea who they are because they've never posted before?

I don't think I said anything about making guests post, just that having them have limited access to parts of the forum might be a good idea to draw some interest - like having all Habbo related forums on show to anyone and maybe Discuss Anything (unless cautioned etc) so that Habbo related guests can see what is being said. Any special forums like Technology Discussions are just an added bonus of joining. Unless that is what is already happening at the moment?

Completely hiding the forums is a big no-no either way, although that's probably never been suggested anyway But having unlimited (or barely limited access e.g. 15 views a day) should drum up some interest.

I'm looking at this in two minds.

1) We will force people to create accounts and half the guests will do it and will be silent members. We do nothing but boost our statistics...and its not like we're getting ad money based off of registered users, this isn't a newspaper. We also lose half the guests, half the potential users and half the potential exposure of Habbox. Word of mouth is our most powerful advertizing tool.

2) The above may or may not happen, however we have a better chance of getting those people posting because people are goddamn lazy. With choice, often something needs to be enough of a catalyst to go through the process of registering an account. If you have to register an account anyway, you're already ready to start posting so may as well go ahead.

Bit in bold confuses me. You make it seem like there's a finite number of guests, when in reality there's a near infinite supply of them. Losing some means nothing, as not all guests are the same ones continuously viewing. There will always be a supply, as different as groups and people see the forum, either through Habbo or cleverly worded search phrases on Google. Either way, losing guests isn't a problem, especially if they join and never log-in again, because they still might view the forum. It's just a lottery really and done at random - some will join and stay, some will join and not stay and some will simply not join anyway. What you have to do is bait them and interest them with something.

[nvrspk4]

it's not necessary for them to register, if they wish to view more threads then it is, but when going on habboxforum.com a big message doesnt' come up 'YOU MUST REGISTER TO SEE ANYTHING' just the fact after 5/10 threads have been viewed they must then register...

I understand the distinction, but what I was saying was that to CONTINUE to browse the forum they would be forced to register. Point taken though, its less restrictive.

Users doesn't really matter, as you can have 1000 guests or 50 members, i'd prefer the 50 member as their giving more to the community and actually taking part in discussions etc on the forum instead of looking and threads and doing nothing.

I disagree completely. If 1000 people know about HabboxForum, they might mention it to a friend and that friend might register. The exposure is much wider. For example, I was introduced to Habbox by a friend on Habbo who had never registered, just browsed the Forum and site for interesting information. He started talking to me about this rumor about Habbo USA and sent me to Habbox to find out more. Without that I may not have found Habbox.

Now, if you're saying 50 ACTIVE members, then maybe its worth it. However I find it hard to believe that those 1,000 guests will never turn into members or that those 50 users will all be active. AS FlyingJesus showed, most members don't even post anyway.

Isn't club habbo forum members / online members about the same as habbox lately? (someone compared earlier in the thread) and habbox has been around alot longer, so clearly the system their using isn't exactly bad if their catching up with hxf..

What nobody has considered is the amount of people that can (and do) appear offline

not FORCING anyone to do anything, simply limiting the benefits of not being a member. You have no idea until you implement the system how many guests or potential users you lose so you can't simply say oh yes we're definately losing 50% of guests if we put this into place.

That's a good point about limiting instead of forcing. As far as numbers, you're absolutely right. I didn't mean half literally I was sort of referring to a portion, I probably should have said some. At the same time, proponents of this change can't prove how many people it will attract/put off. My question at the start was - is it worth the risk? People have avoided that question and instead tried to prove that the question was not necessary - which it is. Unless someone wants to give me a statistically accurate forecast of exactly what will happen - which is completely impossible for a number of reasons.

I don't see the point in you caring about the guests if their just viewing the threads and doing nothing to contribute to them, if the member seen a thread and wanted to register to state their opinion then they will do with or without this system.

Exactly, they will do so with or without this new system. However, the guests who perhaps don't contribute still help to spread the word about Habbox and I gave the example about myself.

i don't get how you would lose any of that when people are signing up and using the forum :S

Because not all of them would sign up? Rather than sign up they might just stop browsing?

They are not posting anything as it is because they are guests so surely if they sign up you're gaining something not losing it?

You're assuming that as soon as they sign up they will choose to get involved. As FJ showed, a large percentage of those who sign up voluntarily still don't post.

and it's not like people are gonna be like "omgz dont go on Habbox you cant view more than 5 threads without registering" people never bad mouth the clubhabbo one. And when you have an account you tend to post.. i went on clubhabbo to look and now i have an account with over 200posts
because i had to register

People never badmouth the ClubHabbo one? I saw several people throughout the thread saying they disliked it. I have also seen people getting annoyed about it before when there were riots in the spam forum or website discussion forum involving CH.

I think you would be one of the people who would have registered on CH without that. Really with the 3 thread rule, they don't give themselves enough time to see if they actually WOULD attract a member without it. Having an account certainly does not equal posting, and I again refer to FlyingJesus' point about the proportion of members who are post-less.

its like you're running the forum as if its 2005 or something, you need to start updating and changing things or habbox is gonna die

How are we running the forum like its 2005? There have been many changes - just because we don't implement this specific one doesn't mean the forum is going to die.

No, you don't seem to understand that the vast majority WILL register, it's OBVIOUSLY working for CHF, and works for many forums on the internet, most of the forums I visited before I was a member MADE me register on the forum, even if it was too just see content, but now - because I am registered, I do post. Even though I thought I wouldn't have.

No, you don't seem to understand that that is a baseless assumption that cannot be verified nor disputed substantially because there is no evidence and there cannot be any evidence because there is no way to know how many AREN'T viewing CHF because of their rules unless you conduct an exit survery of every guest - which is not being done.

It is not "obviously" working for CHF, that too is a baseless assumption. A lot of other forums you benefit a lot from being registered and WANT the content they have. For example, technical help forums have information on how to fix the problem you have with your computer. Hell yes you're going to register for that information. At HabboxForum we have to convince them that we do have content they want to convince them to register. The best way for us to do that is to let them browse the forums, because otherwise they might go through ten threads in discuss anything and say "Ok, so what?"

Just because you assume newer guests to the forum won't want this, you don't want it to be impelmented? This matter won't be effecting you, so why are you bothered about what you would want? It won't be affecting you at all. Yes, a vast majority of younger people visiting this forum might not have seen a forum before, therefore not knowing how to register, (sounds stupid, but it happens) if this was change was made and implemented then it would certainly bring in more members. And have you been reading the thread? we said it should only be implemented on CERTAIN forums, not all.

You're trying to pound us on assumptions and you're making boatloads of them - my point is that we will be taking a risk by doing it and it should be evaluated on the terms of whether its a calculated risk, and whether the benefit will outweigh the potential risk. You are trying to make the argument that there is no risk which is an argument that can not be won.

You're fighting the wrong battle.

The vast majority will. But even so, that is totally besides the point. If you haven't realised this forum is becoming a lot less active, we need MORE ACTIVE members, and the only way to get more active members is to first persuade them to join HxF. And this is why these suggestions should be implemented.

Forced registration /= Active members. Convincing members that they want to post = Active members. You've been provided with ample evidence that a large proportion of registered members never post - if they HAD to register, would that mean that they posted more? Maybe, maybe not. Do we know how many browsers who pass on information on what Habbox has to offer we would lose? No, probably not.

I did a quick lookthrough today, there are a lot of referrals attributed to people who don't have many posts. Its difficult to go backwards and see how many posts those who were referred by those who had few posts had, its actually borderline impossible and involves a lot of legwork for each user. But I found one or two out of like the 10-12 I checked.

Seeing as though there are 45,000 registered members on this forum, those numbers you just posted are microscopic. Wouldn't you rather we take the chance of gaining more members and maybe creating a newer generation of Habbox users onto this forum? because that's what these changes are for, they're for the future. As I stated before, the only way to get more active members (of which will be the next generation of HxF users) is to get them to register first and foremost, then next is to make them become active, which I'm sure most of those will do on their own accord.

That is clearly a baseless assumption But I am glad that someone finally addressed the fact that it is a risk and at least argued that point.

Those numbers don't mean anything. What's 1% of nothing? whats 1% of an extra 5,000-10,000 members? yes, my point exactly.

Where the hell did you get that?

Anyway, the poll says it all. I know this probably won't be implemented for a long time, if at all - because it is quite a big update to put into affect, but I see this as a major stepping block in trying to get newer members on the forum, and making HxF last longer.

The poll shows the opinion of those who voted. How much does it matter what those who voted think - not really that much. The people who we should be polling is the guests. Unfortunately that's impossible so this is the best we can do

Sorry but how can you prove by doing this we WILL loose traffic? there is nothing important about traffic anyway, because they're not registered members.

And how can you prove that we won't? And the second sentence is completely wrong

Christ, well forgive me for not being totally on the ball when it comes to forums and how to manage a website? all I'm doing is suggesting how to bring in more members, and here you are criticising my every post. Forgive me for trying to help the community. So shoot me.

Also, I like how you just totally ignored immenseman's post.

You don't have to be an expert on the subject - but if you're not, then don't act like one. You made the statement authoritatively as if it were the absolute truth. If you don't know what you're talking about, perhaps "Plus, does traffic even matter? I would think only registered members matter." would have been received completely differently, and if someone smacked you down afterwards you can say quite simply that you made the concession that you weren't 100% sure.

I think the perfect cliche is "Don't talk the talk if you can't walk the walk"

I am struggling to see why it's being opposed. A fact was confirmed the other day by Nvr which we all thought was happening - HxF is losing members and not as many people are signing up. Now although this may not be the most ideal solution to that issue I see it as a certain short term solution whilst management pull together and propose some longer term ideas. I understand they're busy and don't want to put them under any pressure to do that soon ~ it does need to be done though.

If I had my way - I know it'll be opposed - just saying I would remove post approvals completely. We have a moderation team who can deal with spam posts or any other inappropriate first 15 posts ~ like they do for any other user. Also, I would let guests view 10 threads then make it mandatory for them to sign up if they desire to see any more. We have proof it works on Habbo Forums as both me and Jen have highlighted it's what made us sign up to CHF and I don't know about her but I have 600 posts on there now.

I don't see the harm in trying this out, especially when it's been made unequivocal that new members are needed. Whether they'll be active posters or not is yet to be seen. As I see it there are two options and they are:

1) Carry on things as they are now. Not many people signing up. People leaving on a regular basis. Forum activity continues to slump.

2) Implement new ideas - even if it's only a vain hope they will improve things. Nothing to lose.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

In response to your two main points (and not the two options you laid out, the two main things I get from your post).

1) Why is it being argued? - There IS a downside to this. That is that less guests will be viewing the forums and that means the scope of Habbox is reduced. The debate is (or should be) around whether that's a good risk. It appears that some are trying to convince others that there is no downside, which simply isn't true.

2) Why isn't it being done? - The main example you brought up was how you were forced to register and had 600+ threads. As I noted earlier in this (probably gigantic) post, I don't think that's proof of anything. Here's why, you didn't have the TIME to decide whether or not to register. At that point maybe you weren't thinking about it, but who's to say by thread 8 you wouldn't have found something that you wanted to reply to? Obviously the community would attract you if you're posting there now, and plus Jake, I know you, you love to give your opinion My point is that its entirely possible you would have registered when you saw something that you wanted to beat someone down over or discuss with someone. We'll never really know.

I don't think I said anything about making guests post, just that having them have limited access to parts of the forum might be a good idea to draw some interest - like having all Habbo related forums on show to anyone and maybe Discuss Anything (unless cautioned etc) so that Habbo related guests can see what is being said. Any special forums like Technology Discussions are just an added bonus of joining. Unless that is what is already happening at the moment?

Would tech discussion really be something that guests would care enough to register for?

Bit in bold confuses me. You make it seem like there's a finite number of guests, when in reality there's a near infinite supply of them. Losing some means nothing, as not all guests are the same ones continuously viewing. There will always be a supply, as different as groups and people see the forum, either through Habbo or cleverly worded search phrases on Google. Either way, losing guests isn't a problem, especially if they join and never log-in again, because they still might view the forum. It's just a lottery really and done at random - some will join and stay, some will join and not stay and some will simply not join anyway. What you have to do is bait them and interest them with something.

Here's the thing - we do (sort of) have a limited number of guests. Now limited is a very subjective word but just give me some leeway here. Our "guest pool" if you will, is essentially limited to the Habbo userbase. Now yes the Habbo userbase is growing (albeit slowly - this could be part of the reason for the downturn in Habbox) however it is certainly a finite number. Therefore, the number of guests is finite because 99.9% of our guests come through Habbo - that's why they come here. I know there is one notable exception but I doubt there are that many. I believe a forumwide poll showed that like three voting members had never played Habbo and on or two started playing after joining HxF.



Jesus that was a monster post. If you made it this far, congratulations. If you skipped to the bottom, BOOO you're one of those kids who flips to the last page of the book. Anyway one point I want to make for anyone still reading. I am not entirely opposed to this idea. I think it has benefits, I think it has disadvantages. However the majority of this thread has been spent arguing whether or not disadvantages exist which in my opinion is a royal waste of six pages. There are downsides, what needs to be debated is if they're worth it.

I'm playing devil's advocate here. I do believe pretty much all of what I posted is rational - I'm not saying it to set someone up for the counter argument, but I have also omitted arguments that I considered that do boost the other side.

For example, people are linking posting with becoming a member. Not so, people will post IF they have an opinion that they want to raise. I think the point that can be made though is that if you already have an account, the amount of stimulation you need, or rather how strongly you need to feel about a subject to be assed to make a post changes. The point can also be made though that if you're in the habit of browsing the forums as a silent member and then make a single post, you may fall back into those ways whereas if you jump in because you want to become an active part of the conversation, you will probably STAY an active part of the conversation.

All valid arguments and I would LIKE to see the thread shift from "Are there downsides" to comparing benefits and disadvantages and forming opinions based on that.