The BNP - Good or Bad?

[Seatherny]

I believe it should only be limited when it involves hatred.

But do you not agree, by denying the Holocaust, he is indirectly causing hatred? Do you not agree, his views have caused so many people mental pain? It is very easy to say that they should ignore him, but the fact is, its extremely hard.

[-:Undertaker:-]

But do you not agree, by denying the Holocaust, he is indirectly causing hatred? Do you not agree, his views have caused so many people mental pain? It is very easy to say that they should ignore him, but the fact is, its extremely hard.

No, because hes not doing it to incite hatred, hes doing it because he genuinely believes the holocaust did not happen.

[Seatherny]

No, because hes not doing it to incite hatred, hes doing it because he genuinely believes the holocaust did not happen.

I think everything he does is to try and get a reaction out of people. If not, then he is (well he is anyway) a complete moron.
You cannot send everyone who breaks the law out of this country. There would hardly be anyone left as everyone has broken a law.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I think everything he does is to try and get a reaction out of people. If not, then he is (well he is anyway) a complete moron.

He's getting the reaction out of you then, you are suggesting that an opinion that differs to yours should be banned - if thats Griffins plan then you yourself have fallen for it.

[Black_Apalachi]

Bloody 'ell this thread has grown a fair bit since I last came to it!

@the argument of 'freedom of speech means I can come to your street with a gang and shout abuse at you':

Although a basic right, freedom of speech is something you should value and be proud to posses, rather than abusing it in such a way. It is designed to allow minorities to speak out without fear of punishment. However if you're going to go one step further and take advantage of this freedom by using it to abuse others, there are laws in place to prevent this because there is a big difference between 'I do not believe said event happened' and 'YOU ARE A ******* ***** AND I HATE YOU'.

I agree that dismissing a historical fact is rather ignorant, but once again I will say, that is not the point.

[Seatherny]

He's getting the reaction out of you then, you are suggesting that an opinion that differs to yours should be banned - if thats Griffins plan then you yourself have fallen for it.

I have never said an opinion which differs to mine should be banned. I believe that he is nothing but an idiot if he denies the holocaust.

How can BNP claim to be not racist when non-whites aren't allowed to be a member? Yes they will be allowed soon but it isn't what they wanted. The fact that non-whites were denied membership in the first place shows that they are racist.

[Black_Apalachi]

I have never said an opinion which differs to mine should be banned. I believe that he is nothing but an idiot if he denies the holocaust.

How can BNP claim to be not racist when non-whites aren't allowed to be a member? Yes they will be allowed soon but it isn't what they wanted. The fact that non-whites were denied membership in the first place shows that they are racist.

I can only base what I know on a balance between what I've heard Nick Griffin say versus what the media say, but isn't their whole point that they don't anyone in the country who is not of British descendancy?

[Ardemax]

agreeing with sergio (on the point that the thread has had about 5 billion more posts since i last came)

but im agreeing with flyduo, sauravg and tash.

denying the holocaust is offending people directly, although it may seem it's not.

like saurav said, if he came and laughed at one of your family's funeral, would you honestly take it as it was and ignore it?

but imagine if people kept laughing, and laughing etc.

[Tash.]

Bloody 'ell this thread has grown a fair bit since I last came to it!

@the argument of 'freedom of speech means I can come to your street with a gang and shout abuse at you':

Although a basic right, freedom of speech is something you should value and be proud to posses, rather than abusing it in such a way. It is designed to allow minorities to speak out without fear of punishment. However if you're going to go one step further and take advantage of this freedom by using it to abuse others, there are laws in place to prevent this because there is a big difference between 'I do not believe said event happened' and 'YOU ARE A ******* ***** AND I HATE YOU'.

I agree that dismissing a historical fact is rather ignorant, but once again I will say, that is not the point.

That to me is the definition of freedom of speech and yet you go on to say that it should be ok for Griffin to say these things. He is exploiting the use of freedom of speech. I don't personally believe that Nick Griffin is stupid enough to think that the holocaust didnt happen. He's a Hitler sympathiser, he agrees with much of what Hitler said and believed in so of course he's going to deny that such a thing was possible.

The example being used here about shouting hatred to someone on the street does compare with this. I personally did not have any relatives who died in the holocaust but to me its insensitive to suggest that it didn't happen. Freedom of speech is restricted by law, as you say, to prevent the abuse of minorities. This to me is the abuse of the memories of those people who died.

agreeing with sergio (on the point that the thread has had about 5 billion more posts since i last came)

but im agreeing with flyduo, sauravg and tash.

denying the holocaust is offending people directly, although it may seem it's not.

like saurav said, if he came and laughed at one of your family's funeral, would you honestly take it as it was and ignore it?

but imagine if people kept laughing, and laughing etc.

This is exactly the point again, the reason homophobia and racism is outlawed is to prevent it being used as a weapon against someone physically, verbally or mentally. Holocaust denial is abusing someones mental memories of those who died in those concentration camps. It's disrespect on the highest level.

[Pyroka]

Just to contribute to this, you may find this interesting. The Student Union president at the university where I go to, well he posted all the addresses and names of constituents of the BNP in Stafford and Stoke areas, which included children (if I heard correctly). Theres a meeting at 5PM in Stoke about it, but you need to be a student to go to the debate. Apparently the BNP has threatened legal action against the union because of this and this is why theres a meeting later on.

You can listen to it at www.omgstaffs.com and it should be under radio, just click on the radio pic probably. But yeah, thatll be at 5PM and it should be interesting. I really wanted to go but I've got work to do for the Uni Should be interesting though, BNP members wont be there but there will be plenty of stuff against the guy who did it.