The BNP - Good or Bad?

[Ardemax]

Your comparison makes no sense though, so I cannot say anything more because the example you are giving/others are giving of a funeral does not make sense at all and is nothing like denial of the holocaust.

And what is the Holocaust again?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yes it is and it has been explained several times in this thread (especially in the last two days), so please re-read it.

They are nothing alike;

• Murder of millions of people by gas/hard labor.

• A funeral with somebody laughing.

I can see no relation at all.

And what is the Holocaust again?

A historical event in which Hitler attempted to 'cleanse' the Third Reich. It is not however a funeral with somebody laughing, so don't try and say that as you predictably are going to.

[Dan2nd]

I think a better comparison would be if in 60 years time someone denied 9/11 happened

Holocaust= Murder of millions of people by gas/hard labor.
9/11 = thousand of people murdered in a terrorist attack

no quite the same but meh

[-:Undertaker:-]

I think a better comparison would be if in 60 years time someone denied 9/11 happened

Holocaust= Murder of millions of people by gas/hard labor.
9/11 = thousand of people murdered in a terrorist attack

no quite the same but meh

..within their rights to think that if they wish to.

[Dan2nd]

..within their rights to think that if they wish to.

Yeah it certainly is as there are many people who already think it was all a setup thing by the white house (loose change or whatever the movie is called) but lets not open the whole 9/11 conspricy thing up it could like this debate go on for hours

I think we should be encouraged to speak our minds instead of making people constantly fear that they are going to say the wrong thing (and that applys to all races, sexualities or genders). If anything I think the whole politically correct angle our current Government seems to like if anything causes more of a divide between communities.

I don't think all that the BNP stands for is bad some of it I agree with.. In the next election I'll be voting UKIP

[Ardemax]

A historical event in which Hitler attempted to 'cleanse' the Third Reich. It is not however a funeral with somebody laughing, so don't try and say that as you predictably are going to.

Well it is? lol.

Somebody laughing at your families funeral - there for mocking the dead, is the same as going up to someone and saying that their family members did not do anything heroic, brave and fought for whats right. Instead it was all a myth, a complete fake and they should forget about it. That's mocking someone too.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yeah it certainly is as there are many people who already think it was all a setup thing by the white house (loose change or whatever the movie is called) but lets not open the whole 9/11 conspricy thing up it could like this debate go on for hours

I think we should be encouraged to speak our minds instead of making people constantly fear that they are going to say the wrong thing (and that applys to all races, sexualities or genders). If anything I think the whole politically correct angle our current Government seems to like if anything causes more of a divide between communities.

I don't think all that the BNP stands for is bad some of it I agree with.. In the next election I'll be voting UKIP

..got it spot on, the sad thing is that with so much scare-monngering/nanny state this government has created a bunch of left wing nut cases who want to interfere in everybodys lives, in their jobs, in their houses, their wheelie bins, their freedom of speech - everything. This government is the worst government we have ever had in our history (worse than the Callagahan government in the 1970s) - it only serves itself.

Good on you.
+rep (if I can)

Well it is? lol.

Somebody laughing at your families funeral - there for mocking the dead, is the same as going up to someone and saying that their family members did not do anything heroic, brave and fought for whats right. Instead it was all a myth, a complete fake and they should forget about it. That's mocking someone too.

Laughing at a funeral is different to somebody questioning the existance of the gas chambers/the numbers killed in a historical event.

[Tash.]

Of course its similar to that of the Nazis on the point of free speech, if you wish to make free speech over historical events illegal then you have no respect for freedom of speech or democracy.


How about you explain it then, Tash is not making any sense what so ever - I ask whether denial of the holocaust should be banned or not and Tash says no, yet then continues arguing against me for being against denial of the holocaust being made illegal.

Instead of waiting for Tash, Alexxx and whoever else, you explain your own point for once.

Right, lets just get a few things straight here because you clearly haven't read or understood what i've been saying. I've tried several times and you're still not getting it. I am not trying to get the law changed on discussing all historical events, nor am I trying to make free speech outlawed with reference to them. I am talking about 1 specific event in history, one in which millions died at the hands of a mad man. There is scientific and first hand evidence of this and of the amounts that have died, not to mention the mass graves that have been discovered. To me denying that does not only make you stupid and ignorant it also makes you highly insensitive. If it was only ignorance to the evidence that drove Nick Griffins denial then maybe I wouldn't have such an issue with it, but he is an intelligent man. I'd bet money on the fact that if you asked him he would not be able to tell you why he doesn't think the holocaust happened and to me thats inexcusable. His opinion is driven only by his love for the Nazi's.

I haven't argued against you at all, you're just not listening. I think, and this is the last time I am going to say this, that denying the holocaust should be morally wrong. I don't think he should be punished for denying it, I don't think he should not say it, I just think that people need to be made aware of how wrong he actually is. There are some very very impressionable people out there, especially in the current climate economically and politically, and they are susceptible to be sucked in by his lies. I seriously think he should be publically denounced for having the opinion, specifically in the media through proving him wrong with evidence. Maybe that way he'll give up on this pathetic crusade.

And please can you think before you try and say that I make no sense, because at the moment the only one who is having trouble understanding me is you. Ardemax managed to, SauravG managed to so why can't you?

..within their rights to think that if they wish to.

So you're ok with people being not only stupid but dilusional? I don't understand you at all. Yes they're within their rights to think it, but it would make them again disrespectful to those people who lost their lives. I'm not sure I would want to live in a world full of people who didn't believe what was infront of their eyes, on film, for all to see.

Laughing at a funeral is different to somebody questioning the existance of the gas chambers/the numbers killed in a historical event.

Technically it is yes, but the effect that it has on the families of those people are the same. The amount of disrespect for the dead is again, the same. That's the point we and many others have been trying to get across.

[Black_Apalachi]

Well it is? lol.

Somebody laughing at your families funeral - there for mocking the dead, is the same as going up to someone and saying that their family members did not do anything heroic, brave and fought for whats right. Instead it was all a myth, a complete fake and they should forget about it. That's mocking someone too.

Who went up to someone's family members and said they did not do anything heroic, brave and fought for what's right? :S

Hang on a second... I thought you were talking about the holocaust??? Now it seems (even more) that you're just twisting even your own words to try and scrape together a valid argument.

The fact is, freedom of speech gives someone the right to choose not to believe that something we believe as a historical event, did not happen. It has nothing to do with approaching and abusing anybody or anything. Honestly mate, just give up.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Right, lets just get a few things straight here because you clearly haven't read or understood what i've been saying. I've tried several times and you're still not getting it. I am not trying to get the law changed on discussing all historical events, nor am I trying to make free speech outlawed with reference to them. I am talking about 1 specific event in history, one in which millions died at the hands of a mad man. There is scientific and first hand evidence of this and of the amounts that have died, not to mention the mass graves that have been discovered. To me denying that does not only make you stupid and ignorant it also makes you highly insensitive. If it was only ignorance to the evidence that drove Nick Griffins denial then maybe I wouldn't have such an issue with it, but he is an intelligent man. I'd bet money on the fact that if you asked him he would not be able to tell you why he doesn't think the holocaust happened and to me thats inexcusable. His opinion is driven only by his love for the Nazi's.

I haven't argued against you at all, you're just not listening. I think, and this is the last time I am going to say this, that denying the holocaust should be morally wrong. I don't think he should be punished for denying it, I don't think he should not say it, I just think that people need to be made aware of how wrong he actually is. There are some very very impressionable people out there, especially in the current climate economically and politically, and they are susceptible to be sucked in by his lies. I seriously think he should be publically denounced for having the opinion, specifically in the media through proving him wrong with evidence. Maybe that way he'll give up on this pathetic crusade.

It may be morally wrong in your opinion but its somebody elses opinion and they should be allowed to air it. If people believe in the holocaust then they do, if people don't believe in the holocaust then they dont - simple as that. On the media, the media is not paid by the ruling elite to target one man (well then again there is the BBC/Guardian). I'm afraid people know the truth and we don't need the nanny state to tell us otherwise.

And please can you think before you try and say that I make no sense, because at the moment the only one who is having trouble understanding me is you. Ardemax managed to, SauravG managed to so why can't you?

Actually I entered this discussion saying that to make it illegal to deny the holocaust would be against freedom of speech, since then i've had you, SauravG and Ardemax (no suprise there) try to prove something against me, when infact it appears that all along we've agreed on the same thing.

So you're ok with people being not only stupid but dilusional? I don't understand you at all. Yes they're within their rights to think it, but it would make them again disrespectful to those people who lost their lives. I'm not sure I would want to live in a world full of people who didn't believe what was infront of their eyes, on film, for all to see.

That, again, is your opinion. I think Labour is stupid, dilusional and I think the European Union is an insult to all those who died in world war II, however instead of saying point blankly 'they/he is wrong' - I debate it and prove my point. Instead of insisting on a witch hunt against Nick Griffin, why don't you and everyone else actually prove him wrong for once.

..but the sad truth is that Nick Griffin has more of a moral backbone than the ruling Lib/Lab/Con elite, thats why they are all so terribly afraid to debate with him.

Technically it is yes, but the effect that it has on the families of those people are the same. The amount of disrespect for the dead is again, the same. That's the point we and many others have been trying to get across.

No it isn't the same, stop pretending its anywhere near the same.