Jon Venables back in Jail

[-:Undertaker:-]

Well where does everyone learn how to act from? Their parents. In the animal kingdom and here. When I was younger, i hit my sister, but my mum told me not to, so I didn't. There was no discipline anywhere in his life.

A lot of people dont have proper parents and it depends on what you think parents and parenting should be like anyway. Often people come from the worst areas, the worst schools, the worst parents but they dont kill people and use it as an excuse. They get off their backside and better themselves.

[Jack.Lfc]

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/15...ler.1493266.jp

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer.../story3326.asp

Read them 2 think he's looking for attention after reading it again.

[lTraditional]

I read this in the papers today, when will people ever learn about not to kill anybody for any reason.

[Catzsy]

They still knew that murdering and torturing was wrong? If they thought it was right they would of admitted to it straight away rather than lied through their teeth. They're not mental either, they're perfectly normal people (I know it's hard to believe but it is true). They knew full well what they were doing and should (and somewhat did) suffer the consequences. Their parents should be punished too, however they should also be punished as they have broke a serious law none of the less. I have also not said anything on the lines of "torture them", contrary to most other people in this thread. For the record, it wouldn't make me worse than them if I did say that anyway.

Whoopee doo that one of them went to University? I'm sure everybody could go to University if they had millions of pounds spent on their upbringing by the government and were in detention the whole time.

A lot of people dont have proper parents and it depends on what you think parents and parenting should be like anyway. Often people come from the worst areas, the worst schools, the worst parents but they dont kill people and use it as an excuse. They get off their backside and better themselves.

If only the world was as black and white as you both think it is. It is a proven fact that a child can be damaged both psychologically and emotionally by an abusive upbringing. This is true if you live on a council estate or a detached house in surrey. Damage to a child by abuse crosses all classes of people.

Whether it was the case for this boy I don't know but you don't know either. Saying he was a 'normal' boy, Jordy - where did that come from? It is a given fact that Jon Venables was dysfunctional and showed abnormal behaviour from early childhood. I can see where lazerman is coming from to a certain extent as they had only just reached the age of criminal responsibilty and were far from being adults. Terrible thing though and they have done the right thing recalling him if they have the slightest doubt about his behaviour.

[-:Undertaker:-]

If only the world was as black and white as you both think it is. It is a proven fact that a child can be damaged both psychologically and emotionally by an abusive upbringing. This is true if you live on a council estate or a detached house in surrey. Damage to a child by abuse crosses all classes of people.

Indeed, so what are you suggesting then?

Let him off? (as bad as the crime itself)
Stop all the bad in the world? (impossible)

I never understand what point you and others make when you make excuses for these people, what exactly are you suggesting we do because quite frankly, myself and the vast majority would like to see this guy in prison for life and would even go futher by putting him to death.

[Jack.Lfc]

How anyone can defend these 2 is beyond me.

[Catzsy]

Indeed, so what are you suggesting then?

Let him off? (as bad as the crime itself)
Stop all the bad in the world? (impossible)

I never understand what point you and others make when you make excuses for these people, what exactly are you suggesting we do because quite frankly, myself and the vast majority would like to see this guy in prison for life and would even go futher by putting him to death.

Not excuses just an comment as to why it may have contributed to the problems as opposed to comments that don't actually see these people as human beings. They still are. There but for the grace of god go I is a very good saying. Imagine one of your family did something terrible. Would you feel the same way? You can't stop all crime BUT maybe more emphasis should be on prevention. Sounds like something should have been done in the case before as the signs were there which is no different to the Baby P case or the poor child who was left to starve to death last week.
This is where the resources should go and Social workers should be told in no uncertain terms that they must be more forceful in their dealings. Yes I would like to see him in a secure environment but I do not pretend to speak on behalf of anybody else.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Not excuses just an comment as to why it may have contributed to the problems as opposed to comments that don't actually see these people as human beings. They still are. There but for the grace of god go I is a very good saying. Imagine one of your family did something terrible. Would you feel the same way? You can't stop all crime BUT maybe more emphasis should be on prevention. Sounds like something should have been done in the case before as the signs were there which is no different to the Baby P case or the poor child who was left to starve to death last week.
This is where the resources should go and Social workers should be told in no uncertain terms that they must be more forceful in their dealings. Yes I would like to see him in a secure environment but I do not pretend to speak on behalf of anybody else.

If one of my family did something like this I can tell you right now I wouldn't want to know them and i'd like to see a harsh punishment dished out on them just like it would be any other way. I would loathe them. To that point, even if their family does not want to see them punished why on earth should that matter? - if your family member commits a crime then they have to take responsibility for it. The courts make the rulings, not the families of those who are guilty.

As for social workers;- more government intrusion I see. The thing is, while originally good intentioned you start taking children away from parents because the parents are not politically correct enough and so forth. And on the final point; oh I dont pretend I speak on behalf of the majority, I know I do.

Go and take a look at polling on the death penalty and harsher sentences, or even better just go to an average guy on the street and see what he thinks should happen to little rats like these two. I do speak on behalf of the majority and its the majority who should have the say in a democracy and as I have said before; lets have a referendum on the death penalty to settle it once and for all.

At the very least these two should be locked up in a basic prison with no entertainment or luxaries and the key should be thrown away.

[Jordy]

If only the world was as black and white as you both think it is. It is a proven fact that a child can be damaged both psychologically and emotionally by an abusive upbringing. This is true if you live on a council estate or a detached house in surrey. Damage to a child by abuse crosses all classes of people.

Whether it was the case for this boy I don't know but you don't know either. Saying he was a 'normal' boy, Jordy - where did that come from? It is a given fact that Jon Venables was dysfunctional and showed abnormal behaviour from early childhood. I can see where lazerman is coming from to a certain extent as they had only just reached the age of criminal responsibilty and were far from being adults. Terrible thing though and they have done the right thing recalling him if they have the slightest doubt about his behaviour.

He is a normal boy though, his brothers however did have mental problems and were therefore sent to a special school. He did have some behaviour issues brought on by his upbringing but Doctors have said he's accountable for his actions, he wasn't mad or anything like that. You can say he had a bad upbringing but he wasn't wrong in the head, scientifically speaking.

His parents should be locked up too, I would agree with that, but that doesn't mean he should get away scot-free otherwise he'll just reoffend. And now it looks like he has reoffended after spending just 8 years in detention. It would be ridiculous to plant it all on the parents, he is accountable for his actions and knew full well what he was doing, as a result, he should suffer the consequences (and somewhat did).

[Catzsy]

He is a normal boy though, his brothers however did have mental problems and were therefore sent to a special school. He did have some behaviour issues brought on by his upbringing but Doctors have said he's accountable for his actions, he wasn't mad or anything like that. You can say he had a bad upbringing but he wasn't wrong in the head, scientifically speaking.

His parents should be locked up too, I would agree with that, but that doesn't mean he should get away scot-free otherwise he'll just reoffend. And now it looks like he has reoffended after spending just 8 years in detention. It would be ridiculous to plant it all on the parents, he is accountable for his actions and knew full well what he was doing, as a result, he should suffer the consequences (and somewhat did).

Did you read the background that I posted earlier in the thread? He was headbanging, being violent to himself and others. I agree he probably wasn't mental in the normal sense but certainly seems to have suffered from a personality disorder of some sort. I don't plant it all on his parents was just saying that these cases aren't always black and white. I agree that he should be detained and his parents should have been made accountable. Whilst we disagree on some things here a very balanced and intelligent post, Jordy.