Labour refuse to make pledge not to raise tuition fees

[Technologic]

The vote did only pass yesterday, to formulate a policy regarding this matter in such a short time would be quite a feat by any party.

[ifuseekamy]

I have no idea why the obvious solution to cut uni places, end useless courses and close crap institutes never arises.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The vote did only pass yesterday, to formulate a policy regarding this matter in such a short time would be quite a feat by any party.

To vote against it they must have reasons in doing so - so why aren't they coming out and telling us what they would repeal if they win the election, they've had months to do it and afterall it was a Labour peer Lord Browne who recommended changes along these lines to tuition fees.

So again, they actually agree with it but pretend they don't in order to win votes, so by voting Labour you won't have any of this repealed and you could still end up with rates rising yet again after Labour have won the election (as they won't rule out raises in tuition fees themselves).

It begs the question, whats the point in voting for them?

I have no idea why the obvious solution to cut uni places, end useless courses and close crap institutes never arises.

Well believe it or not the fourth largest party in the UK has that as its policy from my memory, and I have no doubt there exist many other parties/independent candidates who would propose something along those lines.. but people are much more interested in PR spin lines dreamt up by the spin doctors of the three main parties rather than to take any notice of what other common sense choices out there exist.

[Technologic]

To vote against it they must have reasons in doing so - so why aren't they coming out and telling us what they would repeal if they win the election, they've had months to do it and afterall it was a Labour peer Lord Browne who recommended changes along these lines to tuition fees.

So again, they actually agree with it but pretend they don't in order to win votes, so by voting Labour you won't have any of this repealed and you could still end up with rates rising yet again after Labour have won the election (as they won't rule out raises in tuition fees themselves).

It begs the question, whats the point in voting for them?

I fail to see your argument behind this... you're blindy attacking all three majority parties without proof

[-:Undertaker:-]

I fail to see your argument behind this... you're blindy attacking all three majority parties without proof

Well here's just a short timeline of their positions on this topic;


The Labour Party pledged in 2001 they would not introduce tuition fees.. then did exactly that after winning the general election.

The Liberal Democrats then attacked Labour over that and made it their policy to abolish tuition fees.

The Liberal Democrats pledged in 2010 not to raise tuition fees.. then did exactly that after winning the general election (based on recommendations from a Labour peer Lord Browne who did a report into the topic of university tuition fees).

The Labour Party are now attacking the Liberal Democrats over raising tuition fees and doing a U-turn despite the fact the Labour Party did the exact same in 2001 by promising something before the election, and then clearly breaking that promise.

The Labour Party now 'oppose' this legislative bill, but when questioned on this topic they refuse not only to repeal this bill if they were to gain office (which they would pledge to do so if they believed this bill was wrong, as no parliament can bind its successor) but they also refuse to rule out further rises in tuition fees.


So given their past records and their continued vague promises (which they break anyway), why would anybody still believe a word they say?

[Catzsy]

To vote against it they must have reasons in doing so - so why aren't they coming out and telling us what they would repeal if they win the election, they've had months to do it and afterall it was a Labour peer Lord Browne who recommended changes along these lines to tuition fees.

So again, they actually agree with it but pretend they don't in order to win votes, so by voting Labour you won't have any of this repealed and you could still end up with rates rising yet again after Labour have won the election (as they won't rule out raises in tuition fees themselves).

It begs the question, whats the point in voting for them?



Well believe it or not the fourth largest party in the UK has that as its policy from my memory, and I have no doubt there exist many other parties/independent candidates who would propose something along those lines.. but people are much more interested in PR spin lines dreamt up by the spin doctors of the three main parties rather than to take any notice of what other common sense choices out there exist.

Seriously it is getting very tiresome - you just post threads to bash labour all the time.

1. They might have commissioned the Browne review but they wouldn't have necessarily gone along with what he recommended.

2. They voted against because their plans before the election was to stagger paying off the deficit over a longer period. As they have no controls over what this government does - how can they plan for 5 years time particularly as he is a new leader with his own vision which he will take time to formulate.

3. They are not just a PR party as they did many things of substance during their time in power. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make it PR.

4. You don't know Ed Milliband so stop pontificating on his charactor etc etc because you are as guilty of spin as you claim he is.

:@:@:@

[-:Undertaker:-]

Seriously it is getting very tiresome - you just post threads to bash labour all the time.

Because people like yourself keep harping on about tuition fees and how they are oh so terrible, but still support the party which has just as bad a record (if not worse) than the other two who also broke their policies.

1. They might have commissioned the Browne review but they wouldn't have necessarily gone along with what he recommended.

Given their massive increases in taxation and so forth over the past decade, what reason would you have for believing they would not increase fees after the election? that's right, you have no reason to believe they wouldn't have introduced these rises in fees - other than blinded faith.

2. They voted against because their plans before the election was to stagger paying off the deficit over a longer period. As they have no controls over what this government does - how can they plan?

Oh what utter rubbish. Absolute nonsense, they voted against the plans to hoover up disaffected Liberal Democrat votes and student votes, and if you don't think otherwise then you are being naive.

As for the debt, the debt is due to continue rising under this government and i've no reason to believe it wouldn't have continued to rise under the Labour government had they had won the general election, especially considering they created the bulk of that debt in the first place. Tuition fees are nothing in terms of the debt, maybe start looking at the £18bn+ a year climate change bill, the £10bn+ a year EU costs and the £10bn+ a year foreign aid packages and you'll start getting somewhere.

But you voted for the three examples i've given above and as did the millions of others who voted Lib/Lab/Con - the money need to come from somewhere, and if you want a big state and a big government (as you've said in the past) then you will find that there are immense bills to pay which the poorest will have to pay as there simply are not enough rich people to foot the bill.

3. They are not just a PR party as they did many things of substance during their time in power. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make it PR.

WMD lies, climate change lies, Lisbon Treaty lies.. spin spin spin and the same goes for the Tory Party. Now see I may not agree with them, but what my point is is the fact that you are voting for a party that is just as bad as the one you are many others are criticising - if you don't like it then don't vote for it.

Why are you attacking two parties who are just as bad as the party you support? (not just on this issue, but on many others aswell)

4. You don't know Ed Milliband so stop pontificating on his charactor etc etc because you are as guilty of spin as you claim he is.

Ed Miliband is a dull marxoid who can't even make a simple pledge on tuition fees who you are still planning to vote for despite the fact he's not even ruled out more tuition fee rises when his lot gain power again. By the half-baked reply you've given me in this thread I can clearly see that to support the Labour Party for you is now a matter of faith. The more you lot keep going on about tuition fees, i'm just going to keep posting the cold hard facts and if at least one of you wakes up then it'll be worth it.

I must ask what spin i'm guilty of and i'd ask that to be pointed out, i'd much rather you tackle the facts I listed in the post above rather than challenge me on what little of a personality Ed Miliband has because his character is irrelevant to this debate, the facts are relevant.

All three parties lied on this issue and have taken us all for mugs - don't let it happen again.

The Labour Party pledged in 2001 they would not introduce tuition fees.. then did exactly that after winning the general election.

The Liberal Democrats then attacked Labour over that and made it their policy to abolish tuition fees.

The Liberal Democrats pledged in 2010 not to raise tuition fees.. then did exactly that after winning the general election (based on recommendations from a Labour peer Lord Browne who did a report into the topic of university tuition fees).

The Labour Party are now attacking the Liberal Democrats over raising tuition fees and doing a U-turn despite the fact the Labour Party did the exact same in 2001 by promising something before the election, and then clearly breaking that promise.

The Labour Party now 'oppose' this legislative bill, but when questioned on this topic they refuse not only to repeal this bill if they were to gain office (which they would pledge to do so if they believed this bill was wrong, as no parliament can bind its successor) but they also refuse to rule out further rises in tuition fees.

[Technologic]

We are in a recession, all parties (the viable ones at least) understand this. The government can't afford to keep funding universities at current rates so fees have to go up so if promises get broken, they get broken. All parties have done it in every government in every country

[-:Undertaker:-]

We are in a recession, all parties (the viable ones at least) understand this. The government can't afford to keep funding universities at current rates so fees have to go up so if promises get broken, they get broken. All parties have done it in every government in every country

I would agree with you to an extent, i've been banging on about the state of national finances year on year.

But as I said above, the debt isn't actually going to go down - it's still due to increase over the lifetime of this parliament, government expenditure is actually due to increase yet again. To add to that, tuition fees are irrelevant to the national debt while we increase the likes of the foreign aid budget by 37%. So all they are doing is using something [the debt] which they aren't actually going to do anything serious about, to milk the taxpayer more.

The tactic of fear is the best tactic politicians use, people need to be aware of what politicians say and what politicians actually do.

[beth]

i voted for this particular clown in the leadership battle, and i stand by him. i think he's on the right path for labour.