Transsexual's fight for implants lands taxpayer with £18,000 bill

[HotelUser]

Then thats a sexual fetish/thought, people act on fetishes aswell. The idea of transsexuality is the feeling that you are the opposite sex but trapped in anothers body, its hardly relevent to sexual thoughts.

If so or even so, you dont have to act on sexual thoughts.



No problem, because we've now established that homosexuality is a chemical feeling (of which we have no control over hence why we become aroused over men) whereas transsexuality is a thought, not a sexual or chemical feeling.

Transgendered sexual thoughts are just as much "chemical" by your bizarre use of haxor science as homosexual sexual desires.

You've brought up a point which I have left untouched too, Dan. Transgendered people think of themselves as the opposite gender in every single aspect of their life and role in society, it's not just limited to sexual activity.

If I'm a transgendered male then I would instantly think of myself as a female in every situation without having to first do anything else. It's first natured.

[-:Undertaker:-]

And your evidential source in support of your views is?

My evidence is the fact that transsexuality is not chemical, hence why they are not the sex they desire to be in the first place and hence why they have to take hormones to 'become' the sex after the gender re-assignment. Homosexuality on the other hand is chemical and my source is myself.

No it is not more relevant but what I would say is that every case should be dealt with on it's merits and individual factors. Is 3 months more life to a terminal cancer patient worth a transsexual committing suicide - no I don't think it is. Should cancer treatment and operations be given priority when there is a good chance of survival - yes I think they should. I am sure anybody waiting for a transgender operation would understand this and providing they know they are on a waiting list then I am sure they would be prepared to wait. It's when it is turned down it's a problem.

I'm sorry, but suicide is a choice - not a condition like cancer.

Transgendered sexual thoughts are just as much "chemical" by your bizarre use of haxor science as homosexual sexual desires.

You've brought up a point which I have left untouched too, Dan. Transgendered people think of themselves as the opposite gender in every single aspect of their life and role in society, it's not just limited to sexual activity.

If I'm a transgendered male then I would instantly think of myself as a female in every situation without having to first do anything else. It's first natured.

Indeed they do, and you've hit the nail on the head 'think of themselves' - its a mental condition/a thought, it is not chemical.

As I said earlier, some people think of themselves (genuinely) as the second coming of Jesus Christ - it doesn't mean its reality though, just as transsexuals 'think' of themselves as the opposite sex when infact they are the sex they were born as and always will be.

Some homosexuals may 'think' of themselves as straight, but thats not reality either.

[HotelUser]

My evidence is the fact that transsexuality is not chemical, hence why they are not the sex they desire to be in the first place and hence why they have to take hormones to 'become' the sex after the gender re-assignment. Homosexuality on the other hand is chemical and my source is myself.



I'm sorry, but suicide is a choice - not a condition like cancer.



Indeed they do, and you've hit the nail on the head 'think of themselves' - its a mental condition/a thought, it is not chemical.

Okay, lets correct your use of the word chemical here.

There is a homosexual male who sees another male and is sexually aroused. What's happening here:

Their inferior temporal cortex, orbitofrontal cortex, cingulate cortex, right insula and caudate nucleus parts of the brain all exhibit increased activity, the bloodflow to the male's sexual parts increase and thus they are aroused.

If it's as black and white chemical as you say then every male would experience the exact same symptoms and degrees of arousal when they're exposed to the same sexual scenery or thoughts.

However this is not true. You visualize or think of sexual things, and then to the degree of attractiveness determined SUBJECTIVELY on a per person basis you are aroused to different degrees.

You're not simply mixing carbon and nitrogen to get cyanide here. There are MANY MANY MANY subjective feelings at play before hand, even without the person realizing it.

Saying it's purely chemical to support your stance is baseless because it just simply isn't a cut and dry chemical thing, there ARE subjective elements at play and you can't argue that simply due to the fact that different people are just aroused by different things.

[Jam]

Transgendered sexual thoughts are just as much "chemical" by your bizarre use of haxor science as homosexual sexual desires

Its aesthetic, end of. If you think your a woman but there's a lack of breasts, so ****, unless your paying 100% yourself, there are hundreds of thousands of people ahead of you in the 'importance queue'.

[Mrs.McCall]

Would you say you agree with the idea that she has severe mental health issues? Paranoia, depression etc. To attempt to commit suicide over something like this does come off as something wrong with the individual's psychological well being. She doesn't need to have the operation(s), because there are other ways around her desires and depression, for example. The problem here is that she wants to harm herself because of these thoughts - her body is fine, it's all in the mind (as the now made up rhyme and now famous saying goes ) If the thoughts are what are causing the problems, then the NHS (or other organisation) should tackle the cause of the thoughts - the mind, remove any sense of paranoia, self-harm etc. To operate to get rid of it seems a bit selfish, when the costs could be down to her over a set amount of time. Afterall, I could get depressed over someone bullying me for goodness knows what reason, doesn't mean I should get the Government (and the tax payers) to kill off the bully, or change what is supposedly "wrong" with me, when all I need is the doubt removed.

Clearly she has issues based on the fact she feels trapped and I believe these should be dealt with first. I think anybody who may have psychological issues should not be allowed plastic surgery such as Heidi Montag or even Michael Jackson but that's a debate for another day

Oh what absolute nonsense, get a grip. I'm annoyed because taxpayers money is being spent on this and the fact that cancer patients are denied life-extending drugs in place for this. I said earlier on if he wanted to undergo gender 'reassignment' then he could do so and I wouldn't blink an eyelid - provided its out of his own pocket and not mine.

Now grow up instead of throwing around silly words, 'phobic this, phobic that' - get a grip over yourself.

We're agreed then, so either you can withdraw the fact i'm 'transphobic' or you are too by your own definition.

I do agree with you 100%. The argument you're saying is that trans people shouldn't be allowed sex change ops on the NHS. Completely agree, the NHS doesn't have the funding to carry out such requests.

I am, however, worried about the 'facts' you base your argument on. I feel that you've used this as an opportunity to express views that represent the LGBT community in a negative way. Now, you may be part of that community but that doesn't give you a free pass to say damaging things such as homosexuality being chemical because that opens the floor for homophobes (perhaps not yourself) to use that argument against people.

But, as I say, the crux of this thread is debate whether or not the NHS should fund these operations and I think no.

[GommeInc]

That's like saying you can cure being homosexual Dan. And what you're basically saying yourself is we shouldn't try to 'cure' homosexual people, but we should try to 'cure' transgendered people because otherwise giving into what they want would cost you too much.

I'm guessing this was for Undertaker? I wondered why you were calling me "homosexual Dan", it seems like a cute name Was the reply related to what I said? I can't seem to make it out so I guess it was a completely wrong post, or you accidentally quoted.

This is an interesting thread though, it opens up whether we should be allowing people sex-change operations on the NHS or not.

[FlyingJesus]

But you are justifying it with the excuse of depression, so I ask again; if I want a new set of teeth because my teeth are genuinely depressing me, do you think it is justified in giving me a new set of teeth at the expense of the taxpayer?

That's an entirely different situation - you seem to be confusing transexualism with illogical fashion ideas. This person does not simply want to look like a woman because they like how women look, they are in all mental and chemical aspects a woman. That aside, this is not an £18000 surgery as suggested, it's an £8000 one that's ended up costing more because the NHS illegally backed out of completing the course of treatment, and considering there are rather a lot of people paying a lot of tax in this country I can't see how you can complain at £8000 being used to help someone be happy enough in themselves to not be trying to commit suicide - that is saving a life, no matter what you think of the life being saved

"Trapped in the wrong body", what a heap. You are born with what you are because of which chromosones you have. Because you follow feminine traits does not make you of another gender. What a selfish ******** to take that much any money over aesthetic things when people die because they are rejected funding for life saving treatment and surgery.

As above, it's quite clearly not just an aesthetic problem if it affects her to the point of attempting suicide. You not understanding a medical problem doesn't make it not one

So when you look at guys you are sexually attracted to, you have to think as in "right, now I need to get hard" in order to gain an erection do you?

If so, then you are not gay. If yes, then you are gay - and due to chemical elements in your own body.

Not sure if you're aware of this Dan but attraction doesn't always hand in hand with erections, even in your teens

[Mrs.McCall]

It'd make a fantastic debate tbh.

[dbgtz]

Wow, I actually need an operation which could save my life. Now I know why they can't afford it, because of stupid people who don't think properly.

[Catzsy]

My evidence is the fact that transsexuality is not chemical, hence why they are not the sex they desire to be in the first place and hence why they have to take hormones to 'become' the sex after the gender re-assignment. Homosexuality on the other hand is chemical and my source is myself.

Indeed they do, and you've hit the nail on the head 'think of themselves' - its a mental condition/a thought, it is not chemical.

As I said earlier, some people think of themselves (genuinely) as the second coming of Jesus Christ - it doesn't mean its reality though, just as transsexuals 'think' of themselves as the opposite sex when infact they are the sex they were born as and always will be.

Some homosexuals may 'think' of themselves as straight, but thats not reality either.

That is no evidence at all - it is your opinion which is not backed up by any valid sources.

Just because suicide is a choice doesn't mean that their illness that lead's them to want to commit suicide should not be dealt with in a sympathetic manner. You will be telling me next there is no such thing as mental illness and people should get a grip. The last two paragraphs are just errant nonsense. How does somebody with paranoid delusions of thinking they are Jesus Christ have anything to do with the suffering caused to a person who feels they are a woman in a man's body? Are you saying they are paranoid schizophrenics? Some Gay people think they are straight? Maybe they are bi - I don't know but where does that come from unless they are in the closet voluntarily and if so that is their choice.