Transsexual's fight for implants lands taxpayer with £18,000 bill

[-:Undertaker:-]

There's also a group of people who think 9/11 was planned by the American government, and this group seems to think the world is flat and surrounded by a giant ice wall.

Nothing is agreed upon 100%, but pretty darn every scientist thinks global warming is real, and pretty darn every phycologist thinks gender disorder is a genuine disorder.

It is nowhere near, see you are showing ignorance again by trying to make my opinions on transsexualism and global warming to be a small minority flat earth idea - thousands of scientists signed the Oregon Petition yet you think its near to 100% that agree with global warming because the media the the political class have made it out that way when the reality is totally different. Look into it instead of taking in the the popular PC line just because the showcase 'experts' say it is so, the same experts who said in the 1980s that we were entering a new Ice Age due to the actions of man.

The same experts incidently who claimed hundreds of thousands would be dying on the streets due to swine flu.

[FlyingJesus]

If you want to go into it that deep then almost everything is a chemical reaction, but i'm talking about transsexualism being a thought - not a reality. Homosexuality on the other hand is a reality as its a chemical reaction in the body, uncontrollable by thought.

First off you need to stop stating your opinions as though they were medical facts (unless somehow you have genuine answers to the intricacies of the human mind and just haven't got around to telling the researchers and professionals) as it makes your points look like unfounded drivel.
Secondly I'm still unsure as to why you're using homosexuality as a counterpoint to transexualism, when one is entirely about relationships and sex whilst the other concerns the entire social spectrum as well as being a total identity. Are you trying to show that homosexuality is some sort of medical disease by showing that transexualism isn't?
Thirdly, you're incorrect is assuming that transexuals are simply living out a delusion, it goes far beyond the physical problem of having a different body type and as I said above encompasses absolutely everything about that person's identity. It's not something you can change with a different lifestyle or way of thinking - or at least, certainly not any easier than the forceful and damaging "therapy" you can go through in some places to "cure" homosexuality. If you truly believe that thoughts (as opposed to delusions) are not a form of reality then I wonder as to your lack of imagination

[HotelUser]

It is nowhere near, see you are showing your ignorance again - thousands of scientists signed the Oregon Petition yet you think its near to 100% that agree with global warming because the media the the political class have made it out that way. Look into it instead of taking in the the popular PC line just because the showcase 'experts' say it is so, the same experts who said in the 1980s that we were entering a new Ice Age due to the actions of man.

Perhaps it's you who should do more research before you call me ignorant, especially when you're making facts up about how the body works!

[-:Undertaker:-]

First off you need to stop stating your opinions as though they were medical facts (unless somehow you have genuine answers to the intricacies of the human mind and just haven't got around to telling the researchers and professionals) as it makes your points look like unfounded drivel.

I have stated facts or what I believe to be facts just as you all have done so, again I point out the fact that some believe its genetic while I and many others believe it is a mental state and has nothing to do with genes - the 'professionals' are not all on your side as you are trying to make out.

Secondly I'm still unsure as to why you're using homosexuality as a counterpoint to transexualism, when one is entirely about relationships and sex whilst the other concerns the entire social spectrum as well as being a total identity. Are you trying to show that homosexuality is some sort of medical disease by showing that transexualism isn't?

No i'm using it as a comparison, it was brought in earlier to me by somebody trying to make out as though i'm taking a look-down upon view which was used on homosexuals in the past. I have pointed out that homosexuality is a chemical fact, whereas transsexuality is not hence why they are not the sex they wish to be in their thoughts/mind.

A very simple difference.

Thirdly, you're incorrect is assuming that transexuals are simply living out a delusion, it goes far beyond the physical problem of having a different body type and as I said above encompasses absolutely everything about that person's identity. It's not something you can change with a different lifestyle or way of thinking - or at least, certainly not any easier than the forceful and damaging "therapy" you can go through in some places to "cure" homosexuality. If you truly believe that thoughts (as opposed to delusions) are not a form of reality then I wonder as to your lack of imagination

What do you mean a different body type? they were born as a certain sex, they are that sex no matter what their mind may like to think otherwise. Just as I may think or wish I had blonde hair, but yet I don't because my genes make it so that I have black hair and always will do no matter what else I would like to think or no matter what operations I have or how I dye it - I will always have black hair.

Perhaps it's you who should do more research before you call me ignorant, especially when you're making facts up about how the body works!

I have done research into it (and I used to believe it), the same majority of 'experts' agreed back in 1980s that an Ice Age was on its way - turned out to be false. The best way to examine it is not by looking at temperatures (which how you measure and graph them is a very debated issue) but of the rocks and the history of the climate.

The Oregon declaration/Leipzig declaration.

The very fact that the 'experts' you oh so admire were caught fixing data in the climategate scandel should put some holes in your conventional line of thought, with one scientist (if we can genuinely call him that) even stating that they couldn't explain the falling temperatures.

[HotelUser]

I have stated facts or what I believe to be facts just as you all have done so, again I point out the fact that some believe its genetic while I and many others believe it is a mental state and has nothing to do with genes - the 'professionals' are not all on your side as you are trying to make out.



No i'm using it as a comparison, it was brought in earlier to me by somebody trying to make out as though i'm taking a look-down upon view which was used on homosexuals in the past. I have pointed out that homosexuality is a chemical fact, whereas transsexuality is not hence why they are not the sex they wish to be in their thoughts/mind.

A very simple difference.



What do you mean a different body type? they were born as a certain sex, they are that sex no matter what their mind may like to think otherwise. Just as I may think or wish I had blonde hair, but yet I don't because my genes make it so that I have black hair and always will do no matter what else I would like to think or no matter what operations I have or how I dye it - I will always have black hair.



I have done research into it (and I used to believe it), the same majority of 'experts' agreed back in 1980s that an Ice Age was on its way - turned out to be false. The best way to examine it is not by looking at temperatures (which how you measure and graph them is a very debated issue) but of the rocks and the history of the climate.

The Oregon declaration/Leipzig declaration.

When major governments and their leaders are confident enough to say it's real it's likely real.

[Catzsy]

It is a chemical reaction mainly which thus influences other areas of your person, transsexuality on the other hand is not influenced at all by chemicals only by thought and the idea that 'I am a man trapped in a womans body' or vice versa. Healthcare should not be influenced by thought/mental issues, it should be based on reality.

The thought that you are the opposite sex is not medical reality, its fantasy/wishful thinking.



The difference is that those people paid for it themselves, and cosmestic surgery is rather different to taking hormones and changing organs around in order to imitate the opposite sex; personally I find that kind of surgery deeply distasteful.



Whether I represent or say things that conflict with the idea of an LGBT 'community' is irrelevent, the idea that because you are gay means you have to have militant gay stances on every issue or question the right of speech of those who don't agree with homosexuality/transsexualism is a strand of militantism.

I for one don't agree (on a personal level) with gay marriage or civil partnerships as I feel marriage is the bedrock of the family, I also do not agree with gay adoption and thus wouldn't do it myself. On the other hand (with the marriage issue) I also respect the idea that thats my choice and the choice should be open to those who do want to get married but it should also be there for those who don't wish to perform such ceremonies (ie the Church).

But back to the transseuxal issue as thats more of a diversion; I don't agree with transsexualism, but also respect the right that if somebody should want to carry this out to their body they should have every right to do so - however not at the expense of the taxpayer especially at a time when cancer drugs are being denied to cancer patients who are in real need of help.

That is my issue with this.



I agree with the NHS point, it was wrong of them to do it in the first place. However the second part, you are basically giving into blackmail - if somebody is willing to take their life then thats a choice and not a condition.

There is no aspect of 'saving a life' as the life is not in danger, unless of course he wishes to take it himself.



Its a mental problem yes, he feels himself to be a woman when in reality he is not. I gave the Jesus Christ example before, some people genuinely believe they are the son of god - however you'd quite rightly dismiss them as nuts. This is the same thing, just for idealogical purposes we're stampeided into pretending transsexualism is some sort of disease.



Homosexuality is chemical, transsexualism is not - one is the chemical reaction of the body, the other is a thought.



The only 'evidence' you provided before was a sob-site which pretends or makes out that transsexualism is some form of disease rather than what it is in reality, a mental thought where the subject actually thinks they are the opposite sex. They may be similar to the opposite sex yes in personality just as many gay guys are - but thats called being feminine as its part of your personality.



It-is-not-an-illness!

If it is an illnesss, it is only a mental illness - which needs to be treated, not by giving into this 'illness'. You are pretending that it is some sort of chemical illness like a real disease, it is not. It is merely a thought which goes to the extreme.

As for the Jesus Christ part, well whats the difference? they believe they are Jesus Christ just as transsexuals believe they are the opposite sex when in reality they are not; (in the case of a male) they have male DNA, male genes, male hormones and male sex organs and always will be male no matter how many drugs/hormones they pump into themselves to satisfy their mental imagination that they are somehow something different. It would be like myself believing I don't have black hair when I do and I always will have as its in my gene codes.

As for the gay issue, yes i'm telling you - many people believe 100% they are straight until it finally dawns on them that they are anything but, you can search numerous teen forums for that particular case.

The same applies to transsexualism, its a mental thought - not reality.



Yes but that is reality Rosie, if I lose my leg that is reality - transsexualism on the other hand is in the mind, it is not real.

What you don't seem to accept is that mental illness is an illness and the causes of that have to be addressed. In the case of people who think they are Jesus Christ they don't wake up every morning and think they are. It is a paranoid dillusion that they suffer from in one of their 'episodes' that can be dealt with by medication. It is not possible for them to be Jesus Christ is it? As far as Transexuals are concerned every minute of their waking hours they feel like they are in the wrong body. Either a male in a female body or vice versa. The fact is it is possible to let them have their wish to change sex allievating a burdon on the NHS which iwould probably even greater treating them for their depression all their lives. Their road is not easy and it takes years to get clearance for any sort of operation. It is 'real' to them Dan as much as Dan is being Dan to you.

[-:Undertaker:-]

When major governments and their leaders are confident enough to say it's real it's likely real.

Do you realise how much money they are making out of this? don't be foolish its absolute nonsense. I revert back to the climategate, where they actually admit the temperatures have been falling and they cannot explain it - again i'd ask you to read into it, you might wake up.

What you don't seem to accept is that mental illness is an illness and the causes of that have to be addressed. In the case of people who think they are Jesus Christ they don't wake up every morning and think they are. It is a paranoid dillusion that they suffer from in one of their 'episodes' that can be dealt with by medication.
It is not possible for them to be Jesus Christ is it? As far as Transexuals are concerned every minute of their waking hours they feel like they are in the wrong body. Either a male in a female body or vice versa. The fact is it is possible to let them have their wish. Their road is not easy and it takes years to get clearance for any sort of operation. It is 'real' to them Dan as much as Dan is being Dan to you.

I do accept that - infact i've been arguing throughout that transsexualism is a warping of the mind rather than an actual chemical condition or disease. I don't feel surgery is the way to solve a mental illness as by giving into that mental illness you are accepting it as reality. It is possible for them to have their wish yes, but I don't see why I or anybody else should pay for it - just as if I wished for a new set of teeth I couldn't have it.

But then again, thats another whole argument on healthcare.

[FlyingJesus]

What do you mean a different body type? they were born as a certain sex, they are that sex no matter what their mind may like to think otherwise.

Plenty of people are born damaged or disabled, whether mentally or physically. Going by your logic we should do nothing to help anyone with a birth defect because they were born in such a condition

Just as I may think or wish I had blonde hair, but yet I don't because my genes make it so that I have black hair and always will do no matter what else I would like to think or no matter what operations I have or how I dye it - I will always have black hair.

Thought you didn't believe it to be a genetic problem? If we're to believe you on that then your analogy is not useful to this debate

[Catzsy]

Do you realise how much money they are making out of this? don't be foolish its absolute nonsense. I revert back to the climategate, where they actually admit the temperatures have been falling and they cannot explain it - again i'd ask you to read into it, you might wake up.



I do accept that - infact i've been arguing throughout that transsexualism is a warping of the mind rather than an actual chemical condition or disease. I don't feel surgery is the way to solve a mental illness as by giving into that mental illness you are accepting it as reality. It is possible for them to have their wish yes, but I don't see why I or anybody else should pay for it - just as if I wished for a new set of teeth I couldn't have it.

But then again, thats another whole argument on healthcare.

'Warping of the Mind'? If you feel it from the moment you were born and all the time - it is real. I don't think they should be top of the queue but they have every right to be on a waiting list having satisfied many health professionals that this is the answer. What's your opinion on my statement that it could save the NHS in the long run as it allieviates the pressure on them having to be treated for depression, suicide attempts?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Plenty of people are born damaged or disabled, whether mentally or physically. Going by your logic we should do nothing to help anyone with a birth defect because they were born in such a condition

Thats a good point but that is in order to correct a disadvantage whereas there is no 'disvantage' in being a certain sex to the extent where somebody is brain damaged. Brain damage/disability mentally is different from transsexualism because transsexualism is not placed upon you, I believe its a thought whereas mental disability is moreso chemical.

Thought you didn't believe it to be a genetic problem? If we're to believe you on that then your analogy is not useful to this debate

I don't believe its a genetic problem, whereas these people do think it is a genetic problem that they were born the wrong sex just as I could think I was born with the wrong hair colour - they need mental help, not body mutilation.

When major governments and their leaders are confident enough to say it's real it's likely real.

I didn't do this bit justice so i'll just do a short list; Iraq and its WMD - didn't exist // Global temperatures rising - actually are falling // The Common Market - the actual baseplan for a federal Europe // Gulf of Tonkin incident - was spun into something it was not in order to go to war.. the list goes on and on, its endless.

So when government says or does anything, you should be naturally and instantly suspicious.

'Warping of the Mind'? If you feel it from the moment you were born and all the time - it is real. I don't think they should be top of the queue but they have every right to be on a waiting list having satisfied many health professionals that this is the answer. What's your opinion on my statement that it could save the NHS in the long run as it allieviates the pressure on them having to be treated for depression, suicide attempts?

My opinion is that at the moment we are led into assessing them and thus catering for the thoughts/feeling we have, the issue with suicide - i'm sorry but I see that as a form of blackmail, nobody is forced into taking suicide - it is a choice.

That is another issue as is with crime, we are required to pretend that these things are 'diseases'.