The Queen & Ireland

[-:Undertaker:-]

Now i don't want to begin another long discussion on this since we've already spent a lot of time on it to the point that you and i just go around in circles. However i do think it's unfair that in this statement towards Richie, you are simply assuming he is talking about just one of the Bloody Sundays ( I assume you're talking about the most recent one). Yes it is in the past and we must move on, but you also must accept that quite a lot of other incidents did happen, especially before the world wars. I think Richie was talking about the entire history of the British/English army in Ireland rather than just what happened in recent enough times in the north.

If you want to go back that far we could go back to collaboration between Ireland with continental powers to invade and bring down the Kingdom of England on the basis of religion and pure politics, but of course everything is the fault of big bad Britain and its Empire which although it had faults, brought about the notion of morality and common law which remain precious to free nations.

I have stated before, the British army has had bad periods in its history just as with any army, however when compared with the IRA and the cretin Gerry Adams and his Sinn Fein i'm afraid they are leaps and bounds ahead in common decency.

Interestingly Ireland was formed as a nation state after the Pope and the Catholic Church ordered the then-Catholic Kingdom of England to invade Ireland and bring it into the Papal sphere - so if you want to pinpoint the blame, pin it on the Roman Catholic Church.

Yes it is in the past and we must move on, but you also must accept that quite a lot of other incidents did happen, especially before the world wars.

I have never denied this, infact I pointed out myself the incident of General Dyer in the British Raj. I have a question for yourself and Richie though, do you agree that the British army, with its faults, is leaps and bounds ahead of the IRA in terms of morality and general behaviour?

[Richie]

I have never denied this, infact I pointed out myself the incident of General Dyer in the British Raj. I have a question for yourself and Richie though, do you agree that the British army, with its faults, is leaps and bounds ahead of the IRA in terms of morality and general behaviour?

Both are at fault. Not in any one of the threads I created in the past have I agreed with the IRAs behaviour. The IRA were/are in the wrong for what they do/did, however I do understand why they try to create uproar and agree with some of Sinn féins political views but that doesn't mean I condone violence. You're British, you're obviously going to defend your side of the pitch as I'm Irish I will always defend mine. For example, I'm more angry for what the British did to the Irish as those people who died are people of our nation. You will be more angry with what the IRA have done because they killed people of your nation. I wouldn't say I'm bias I'd say more umm.. defending my country as we were at threat from the British and not the IRA.

I'm not sure why you want to bring it all back up? Your opinions just make me want to agree more and more with the IRAs political views. It's all water under bridge, what's done is done. All we can do is build a better friendship with both nations and think of the future, remember those who died and forget about those who are held responsible for the deaths of all those innocent people (On both sides).

[Red]

I fail to see how are you think you are at threat from the British and not the IRA? They are the ones still continuing their killings and not just to Protestants but Catholics too :S Anyway I think it is disgusting how men like Gerry Adams are allowed to run our country.

[Richie]

I fail to see how are you think you are at threat from the British and not the IRA? They are the ones still continuing their killings and not just to Protestants but Catholics too :S Anyway I think it is disgusting how men like Gerry Adams are allowed to run our country.

I was referring to the real IRA of the past.

[Red]

yes well its hardly water under the bridge if they are still carrying on their campaign of violence.
The IRA and building a friendship between the two nations don't fit in the same sentence!

[Catzsy]

I was referring to the real IRA of the past.

I think you are fighting a losing battle here. It started out being a lovely thread with some great some great sentiments. Let's face it just because the Queen of England, British and the Irish Government can 'mend the fences' and look forward not back with peace and reconciliations obviously doesn't mean that some on here obviously think their views count for more and I would leave them to it.

[Eoin247]

If you want to go back that far we could go back to collaboration between Ireland with continental powers to invade and bring down the Kingdom of England on the basis of religion and pure politics, but of course everything is the fault of big bad Britain and its Empire which although it had faults, brought about the notion of morality and common law which remain precious to free nations.

I have stated before, the British army has had bad periods in its history just as with any army, however when compared with the IRA and the cretin Gerry Adams and his Sinn Fein i'm afraid they are leaps and bounds ahead in common decency.

Interestingly Ireland was formed as a nation state after the Pope and the Catholic Church ordered the then-Catholic Kingdom of England to invade Ireland and bring it into the Papal sphere - so if you want to pinpoint the blame, pin it on the Roman Catholic Church.

As much as i'd love to blame the church for everything, I don't think you can really blame the church for the killings here.

I have never denied this, infact I pointed out myself the incident of General Dyer in the British Raj. I have a question for yourself and Richie though, do you agree that the British army, with its faults, is leaps and bounds ahead of the IRA in terms of morality and general behaviour?

As it is now and in more recent time then yes of course it is. I actualy agreed with this during our last discussion on this topic.

However as it was under people like Cromwell for example, it wasn't quite i'm afraid.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Both are at fault. Not in any one of the threads I created in the past have I agreed with the IRAs behaviour. The IRA were/are in the wrong for what they do/did, however I do understand why they try to create uproar and agree with some of Sinn féins political views but that doesn't mean I condone violence. You're British, you're obviously going to defend your side of the pitch as I'm Irish I will always defend mine. For example, I'm more angry for what the British did to the Irish as those people who died are people of our nation. You will be more angry with what the IRA have done because they killed people of your nation. I wouldn't say I'm bias I'd say more umm.. defending my country as we were at threat from the British and not the IRA.

I'm angry at both and don't attempt to defend either Republican or Unionist terrorist groups or when the British army/government has acted disgracefully such as with Bloody Sunday, General Dyer in the Raj and the Iraq war. I do however object to the idea that what Gerry Adams says or thinks holds any weight or that he shouldn't be criticised on this forum - if you or Eoin wish to quote Gerry Adams then everytime you do so I will bring up his disgusting history and expose him for the man he really is.

The fact you refuse to condone a terrorist group when compared to the British army suggests again to me that you sympathise greatly with the IRA.

I'm not sure why you want to bring it all back up? Your opinions just make me want to agree more and more with the IRAs political views. It's all water under bridge, what's done is done. All we can do is build a better friendship with both nations and think of the future, remember those who died and forget about those who are held responsible for the deaths of all those innocent people (On both sides).

You agree with them anyway, from what i've gathered (because you refused to spell out what your views actually are because they fall into line with those of the IRA) you support a United Ireland despite the fact that the people of Northern Ireland do not want to be a part of the Republic of Ireland. If wrong you can correct me on that and spell out exactly what your views are.

I don't see what i'm saying here is me being irrational, either we agree that those who murder the innocent should be punished and not put into government or we don't - I agree with that statement, yet everytime I raise it I get hassle from yourself bringing up isolated incidents such as Bloody Sunday and so forth.

I think you are fighting a losing battle here. It started out being a lovely thread with some great some great sentiments. Let's face it just because the Queen of England, British and the Irish Government can 'mend the fences' and look forward not back with peace and reconciliations obviously doesn't mean that some on here obviously think their views count for more and I would leave them to it.

Would you support placing Osama Bin Laden in the Afghan government? and for that matter, would you then tell the families of the victims of 9/11, to quote a vapid phrase, 'look forwards and not backwards'? I would love to see the faces of the victims families if you suggested that to their faces, so just because its Northern Ireland being talked about here don't dismiss me as some dweller on the past.

I believe people who murder innocents should be punished, not put into government.

As much as i'd love to blame the church for everything, I don't think you can really blame the church for the killings here.

Well again, it depends how far you want to go back - and everytime this issue surfaces it seems sympathisers with the IRA always excuse its acts by going back centuries and centuries to pinpoint some jusitication for their crimes.

As it is now and in more recent time then yes of course it is. I actualy agreed with this during our last discussion on this topic.

However as it was under people like Cromwell for example, it wasn't quite i'm afraid.

Good.

[Catzsy]

I'm angry at both and don't attempt to defend either Republican or Unionist terrorist groups or when the British army/government has acted disgracefully such as with Bloody Sunday, General Dyer in the Raj and the Iraq war. I do however object to the idea that what Gerry Adams says or thinks holds any weight or that he shouldn't be criticised on this forum - if you or Eoin wish to quote Gerry Adams then everytime you do so I will bring up his disgusting history and expose him for the man he really is.

The fact you refuse to condone a terrorist group when compared to the British army suggests again to me that you sympathise greatly with the IRA.



You agree with them anyway, from what i've gathered (because you refused to spell out what your views actually are because they fall into line with those of the IRA) you support a United Ireland despite the fact that the people of Northern Ireland do not want to be a part of the Republic of Ireland. If wrong you can correct me on that and spell out exactly what your views are.

I don't see what i'm saying here is me being irrational, either we agree that those who murder the innocent should be punished and not put into government or we don't - I agree with that statement, yet everytime I raise it I get hassle from yourself bringing up isolated incidents such as Bloody Sunday and so forth.



Would you support placing Osama Bin Laden in the Afghan government? and for that matter, would you then tell the families of the victims of 9/11, to quote a vapid phrase, 'look forwards and not backwards'? I would love to see the faces of the victims families if you suggested that to their faces, so just because its Northern Ireland being talked about here don't dismiss me as some dweller on the past.

I believe people who murder innocents should be punished, not put into government.



Well again, it depends how far you want to go back - and everytime this issue surfaces it seems sympathisers with the IRA always excuse its acts by going back centuries and centuries to pinpoint some jusitication for their crimes.



Good.

Do you care that you have killed Richie's thread? Peace and reconciliation are good enough for countries but not good enough for you? Not every thread has to be a full on battle you know and IMO you should go back and read the first post .:@

[-:Undertaker:-]

Peace and reconciliation are good enough for countries but not good enough for you? Not every thread has to be a full on battle you know and IMO you should go back and read the first post .:@

Answer the question, its a simple yes or no.

Do you care that you have killed Richie's thread?

The thread was killed when Gerry Adams was mentioned as though his opinion deserves any respect.