Doctor Who - Series 6.

Rashelly · 05-06-2011, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Fez

Saying that means it's "not cool" to like him? That I'm some sort of elitist given that I despise the direction the show is going in? That's fine though, I get called an elitist all the time for having a free opinion.

I have my reasons, you have mine for that but don't tell me that I'm doing this for the sake of some sort of 'higher recognition' because this is a children's show that I grew up with, cried over and fell in love with. I only dislike and critique both writers so much because I love it so much and I might be a tad too picky because it's still the greatest show known to man. Except I can't bare to watch it, in my eyes, decrease in quality and fall from grace any longer with everything I've already outlined. Hence why I'm giving it up after this series.

I'll be serious, I am part of the minority here but I don't feel empowered voicing my opinion about a show I love. It hurts, honest, and that's why I'm giving it up. What I would like, however, is to not be called an 'elitist' or that I'm doing this for another sake other than the fact I'm a Whovian and I probably always will be just not a Moffvian if you get my drift. You can enjoy the show and I can go back and finally dive into the classic series after the odd bite.

I'm trying not to sound like a complete **** but saying that people who have a different opinion, with reasons for that opinion, are doing it for the sake of "being cool" is pretty much saying that they're wrong and you're right. I'm a part of many Doctor Who messaging boards (Gallifreybase, here etc.) and I've seen people who share my opinion and a massive share who don't like it. It doesn't mean I'm a hipster for saying "I did it before anyone else did so I'm cool" it means that I have an opinion and, this being the internet, I'm welcome to share it. It also means that anyone else who happens to have the same opinion as me also has the right to share it with similar reasons. Saying that we're wrong because we just do it "because it's cool" is kind of insulting to me.

I think you took that a little too personally there. I didn't specify you, it's just my experience with some of the Who community.

Like I said, I can understand why people don't like the direction it's going in and if people can actually specify why (not just... "it sux RTD was better and everything Moffat does is stupid"... which ISN'T a valid argument unless it's backed up by something). This obviously doesn't apply to you because, in the few pages I've read of this thread, you have expressed why.

Unlike you, however there are people on the internet, probably younger people who haven't been into Doctor Who for years like a lot of us have (I too grew up watching it, thanks to my grandad and mothers love for the old episodes) who just seem to regurgitate information without really knowing what they're saying... Just because they saw someone else say it.

I'm all for having different opinions, it makes for good discussion. and I love a good discussion.

If what I said insulted you, then I apologise, I certainly didn't have you in mind when I wrote that.

Fez · 05-06-2011, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Rashelly

I think you took that a little too personally there. I didn't specify you, it's just my experience with some of the Who community.

Like I said, I can understand why people don't like the direction it's going in and if people can actually specify why (not just... "it sux RTD was better and everything Moffat does is stupid"... which ISN'T a valid argument unless it's backed up by something). This obviously doesn't apply to you because, in the few pages I've read of this thread, you have expressed why.

Unlike you, however there are people on the internet, probably younger people who haven't been into Doctor Who for years like a lot of us have (I too grew up watching it, thanks to my grandad and mothers love for the old episodes) who just seem to regurgitate information without really knowing what they're saying... Just because they saw someone else say it.

I'm all for having different opinions, it makes for good discussion. and I love a good discussion.

If what I said insulted you, then I apologise, I certainly didn't have you in mind when I wrote that.

That's fair enough, just I seem to be posting a lot lately and I thought it was directed at me. No need to apologise if it wasn't personally directed towards me.

I think there are people who dislike NewNewWho for the sake of 'hating it' but they're generally doing it because they don't want to admit to loving it. I'm open about still loving it but wanting to love it like I did with Davies' Days, but I am more than sure there are a damn lot of people who dislike NewNewWho for similar reasons.

Lost_Addict · 05-06-2011, 04:10 PM

I'm very split on NewNewWho the blatent in your face "lost" moments are annoying and the general standard of episodes is low. However i find with NewNewWho they're are more examples of truley amazing single episodes (2/3 a season). So even though the overal product is sub standard i still watch for those gems of an episode.

joshuar · 05-06-2011, 05:09 PM

This post is mainly a reply to Fez, didn't want to stick your whole quote in this post as it was a long one, but i've replied in order of the points you made in that post.

Was it every episode? They're a bit hazy now, and I probably didn't catch them all. The flashbacks were definitely helpful (for kids, and those who just can't remember/didn't see them all) and I wish some of those were back, i'm having a hard time remembering where fat blue man came from.

Moffat's finales aren't as big as Davies' by a long shot, but I thought by series 4 (like you) they just got stupid. You probably would feel disappointed by River's revelation as i'm sure you'd read fan theories. When alot of people put their minds together they can figure pretty much anything out, as I didn't look at any of these theories it came as more of a bigger reveal for me, I felt more satisfied with it than you probably did, as with other big reveals of the past.

I don't know which TV show got itself in the big writing knot (to be honest, I don't watch any TV apart from Dr Who and Top Gear, anything else is old TV or none at all), but yes Moffat needs to be careful with all these plots running around the place. If he keeps them all in line it can be good, but if they get too knotty then it will spell disaster. With these plot lines running all over the place and being revealed at different times, it means the "big reveals" of old just won't happen any more. Davies avoided that by keeping all plots within a series, which is good, but I love a bit of change and fair play to Moffat for going for the change to make it feel fresh. And i'm in total agreement about the risen higher thing, how is that rising high? Nothing really happened, he just assembled old "friends" and they killed a few headless monks? No, I don't think that's the highest he's been but we'll have to wait for the next episode to see if it's elaborated on.

From the last episode it felt like we'd learned a bit about eye patch lady, where Amy was, the child is part time lord because it was conceived in the TARDIS etc. It wasn't just the big reveal and secrets was probably the wrong word to use, it was too late to be typing! The pinch of salt line was mainly how I feel about it, I understand that others won't (and will rightly so, defend it and feel disappointed if you feel it's declining) as you love it so. At least you're not hating it for the sake of hating it, nothing worse than crowd mentality ruining the program for some of the hardcore fans.

I do hope that you are able to enjoy it again one day, as i'm sure there is nothing more frustrating than disliking your favourite show, and thanks for some intelligent conversation on Dr Who

(none of my friends watch it, so I never get to talk about it).

Fez · 05-06-2011, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Lost_Addict

I'm very split on NewNewWho the blatent in your face "lost" moments are annoying and the general standard of episodes is low. However i find with NewNewWho they're are more examples of truley amazing single episodes (2/3 a season). So even though the overal product is sub standard i still watch for those gems of an episode.

I agree here, but not a 'higher ratio of quality episodes'. It depends which season you compare it to.

In all seriousness only three episodes these past two series have really, really stuck out for me - Eleventh Hour, Vincent and the Doctor, Doctor's Wife.

Whereas with Davies' series there's a higher ratio of quality stuff from series one and three, series two and four sort of jump off board the richter scale of ratio but the specials season is mostly darn good.

Originally Posted by joshuar

This post is mainly a reply to Fez, didn't want to stick your whole quote in this post as it was a long one, but i've replied in order of the points you made in that post.

Was it every episode? They're a bit hazy now, and I probably didn't catch them all. The flashbacks were definitely helpful (for kids, and those who just can't remember/didn't see them all) and I wish some of those were back, i'm having a hard time remembering where fat blue man came from.

Moffat's finales aren't as big as Davies' by a long shot, but I thought by series 4 (like you) they just got stupid. You probably would feel disappointed by River's revelation as i'm sure you'd read fan theories. When alot of people put their minds together they can figure pretty much anything out, as I didn't look at any of these theories it came as more of a bigger reveal for me, I felt more satisfied with it than you probably did, as with other big reveals of the past.

I don't know which TV show got itself in the big writing knot (to be honest, I don't watch any TV apart from Dr Who and Top Gear, anything else is old TV or none at all), but yes Moffat needs to be careful with all these plots running around the place. If he keeps them all in line it can be good, but if they get too knotty then it will spell disaster. With these plot lines running all over the place and being revealed at different times, it means the "big reveals" of old just won't happen any more. Davies avoided that by keeping all plots within a series, which is good, but I love a bit of change and fair play to Moffat for going for the change to make it feel fresh. And i'm in total agreement about the risen higher thing, how is that rising high? Nothing really happened, he just assembled old "friends" and they killed a few headless monks? No, I don't think that's the highest he's been but we'll have to wait for the next episode to see if it's elaborated on.

From the last episode it felt like we'd learned a bit about eye patch lady, where Amy was, the child is part time lord because it was conceived in the TARDIS etc. It wasn't just the big reveal and secrets was probably the wrong word to use, it was too late to be typing! The pinch of salt line was mainly how I feel about it, I understand that others won't (and will rightly so, defend it and feel disappointed if you feel it's declining) as you love it so. At least you're not hating it for the sake of hating it, nothing worse than crowd mentality ruining the program for some of the hardcore fans.

I do hope that you are able to enjoy it again one day, as i'm sure there is nothing more frustrating than disliking your favourite show, and thanks for some intelligent conversation on Dr Who

(none of my friends watch it, so I never get to talk about it).

Fair enough, I guess we agree to disagree.

Lost_Addict · 05-06-2011, 07:38 PM

See i thought The Eleventh Hour was Sub-Par at best. I thought the intro was tacky the storyline was meh and the enemies were crap. I only liked the kudos to previous Dr's.

For me I loved the angel 2 parter, Amy's Choice, The first 2 of this season, The Dr's Wife and Vincent of the DR.

peteyt · 06-06-2011, 01:16 AM

I liked a good man goes to war. Yeah some people had guessed it correctly, but they weren't 100 percent sure. He could have made a twist, and had it as some random person and then we'd be like why. I think it shows that simple writing at times can work - you don't need to make something too over complicated.

To me the problem with new who is that the Doctor now is like a celebrity and seems to just make everyone run at the sound of his name. I'd like to see the doctor having to solve some stuff instead of going I'm the doctor run a bit more.

But I prefer Moffat to RTD - RTD to me made doctor who into a soap with Rose's family then Martha's family. Notice how we don't see much of Amy or Rory's family? Someone mentioned earlier we should see more friends of the doctor from RTD's era but I found it got too overcrowded and just ruined it. RTD also used comedy too much at times and couldn't always end his finales that well. Moffat isn't perfect and the big bang 2 ending did make me think of RTD but I don't think it was as bad.