God or Fact?

[Accipiter]

Okay don't be hatin on me.. but I believe there is a God.. But its something I have experienced in my life.
I go to church most Sundays, but no I'm not a old school catholic or nothing. I am involved in a church movement called Australian Christian Churches (Assemblies of God).. It's pentecostal, and VERY modern.

I operate big lighting rigs, and such. I am a techie. aha.
But I have experienced a lot when it comes to God. Its hard to explain when people who have never experienced or even given it a try don't even give the slightest opening.
I believe God is someone who works when we are willing, but only when we are willing..
Its hard to talk to someone when they aren't listening aye?

God has helped me through so much, but I won't get into it all. But my beliefs are strong with me, so if ya'll go hatin.. don't be personal about it yeah, or even just avoid it around me unless your willing to be open bout gear.

In short, Yeah bro, there's a God. And He loves ya like crazy. n__n

Clifford.

---------- Post added 30-07-2011 at 07:47 PM ----------



GREAT POINT BRO! Wish more people would realize that ALOT of Science is theory.. I also did Physics year 11 and 12 at school, so I have been through all that type of thing.
Evolution has MANY flaws, Big Bang has even more flaws, and yes Christianity has flaws, but don't we all?
Christianity and belief in God is a faith based relationship. But hey, aren't all relationships?

I wouldn't really say evolution theory is weak but i'll agree that the big bang theory is!

Too me science is based around more fact than what faith is, because research has proved findings in science, no research has ever proved the bible right!

[Lost_Addict]

Well none of that is fact.

What do you mean none of that is fact? The idea behind the big bang IS that chemicals randomly collided?
And 95% (Ok mabey more 80-90%) IS Theroretical (I Took A Level science ) I could give you many examples if you so wish.

I honestly don't understand what your saying isn't a fact you have totally confused me haha XD

And thanks for the replies agreeing with my statement i'm glad people agree

[Wig44.]

What do you mean none of that is fact? The idea behind the big bang IS that chemicals randomly collided?
And 95% (Ok mabey more 80-90%) IS Theroretical (I Took A Level science ) I could give you many examples if you so wish.

I honestly don't understand what your saying isn't a fact you have totally confused me haha XD

And thanks for the replies agreeing with my statement i'm glad people agree

Just because you can give me examples doesn't mean you know the % of science as theory. When you say A-level science I can only assume you mean you took all 3 of biology, chemistry and physics. From my own experience to have a decent view of science you need to read outside of the narrow A-level syllabus. No doubt the percentage of science as theory is high, but the sheer magnitude of scientific discovery means that even if only 1% of science wasn't theory, we'd still have enough knowledge to write the equivalent of thousands of bibles.

Secondly, to say the big bang is just a load of chemical collisions is plain wrong. A major oversimplification which has been lead astray from the truth.

I like your idea about the sims though, when I first played that game when I was younger I thought the same thing.

[Lost_Addict]

The point i was trying to get across is that you cant call science fact Science is almost purley theoretical (Particles elements and so on, even simple things like colour is theoretical, we seen a spectrum of colours and believe that is the colour spectrum, most dogs (theoretically) see in black and white and they think thats the colour spectrum this isn't even taking into account that diffrent peoples eyes recognise colour diffrently. For example if you and a mate are arguing about whether a jacket is Blue or Green, our eyes recognise colour diffrently and hence why colour is theoretical from each diffrent persons point of view.

I realise i may of babbled there but i hope you get my point.

Secondly i couldn't be bothered to explain the whole theory of the big bang if you strip it down to a raw basis then random chemicals comming together is effectivley what you get.

I'm loving that everyone thought the same way as me with the sims though hehe

[RealClifford]

Okay.. Evelotuino is VERY flawed actually.. there are alot of missing links, they only have what they think there is, which is small links, but you'll find that there are parts missing in their so called evolutionary chain and not even evoltionists can explain why.

Sorry, but we all have our opinions.. Thats life.

[ifuseekamy]

The thing is science doesn't claim to be the infallible word of an all knowing, all powerful, all present deity, unlike religion.

[beth]

i would love to believe in a god, i find faith and religion inspiring (not dangerous as most people seem to find it), however my common sense forces me to turn to fact. but then what is fact? nothing is really fact. fact is just someones opinion. like, you could tell me my font is black and i'd agree, but how do we know it's black? because someone told me it's black and someone told you it's black. and what is religon? a story passed from person to person.

i maybe believe that there isn't a god but jesus (+ mohammed and the rest of them) did exist but were just extraordinary people. almost like todays celebrities and that over the years they've been hyped up a bit. but i just can't see how a 'god' would exist. i would love to be proved wrong though.

[Marbian]

The point i was trying to get across is that you cant call science fact Science is almost purley theoretical (Particles elements and so on, even simple things like colour is theoretical, we seen a spectrum of colours and believe that is the colour spectrum, most dogs (theoretically) see in black and white and they think thats the colour spectrum this isn't even taking into account that diffrent peoples eyes recognise colour diffrently. For example if you and a mate are arguing about whether a jacket is Blue or Green, our eyes recognise colour diffrently and hence why colour is theoretical from each diffrent persons point of view.

I realise i may of babbled there but i hope you get my point.

Secondly i couldn't be bothered to explain the whole theory of the big bang if you strip it down to a raw basis then random chemicals comming together is effectivley what you get.

I'm loving that everyone thought the same way as me with the sims though hehe

What a load of ******** you just written. We humans see the same colour, unless you're colour blind. They know this more because of Optical illusion. Certian colours need to be just right for illuisons, etc.

I'll believe in science than stories anyday. Saddens me that you will believe in stuff written by MAN thousands of years ago, than science. A lot of stuff is made by science, a lot of stuff is prooven with science. When the bible was made, they didn't know what space was... Oh what they thought the world was flat too?

The bible states the world was made 3000 years ago. Where there is stuff that you don't even need a little science to know that it's been there for million's. Ejyptian's even happened before Christian. And for anyone to choose 1 god out of all the others there are, is even more of a wtf to me.

If I was to ever consider a god, I wouldn't follow a faith. I'd follow my own, to live, to breath, and suvive and make babies for generations. Defintely with all these different types of gods... It's like risking all you got on the lottery.

[Lost_Addict]

What a load of ******** you just written. We humans see the same colour, unless you're colour blind. They know this more because of Optical illusion. Certian colours need to be just right for illuisons, etc.

I'll believe in science than stories anyday. Saddens me that you will believe in stuff written by MAN thousands of years ago, than science. A lot of stuff is made by science, a lot of stuff is prooven with science. When the bible was made, they didn't know what space was... Oh what they thought the world was flat too?

The bible states the world was made 3000 years ago. Where there is stuff that you don't even need a little science to know that it's been there for million's. Ejyptian's even happened before Christian. And for anyone to choose 1 god out of all the others there are, is even more of a wtf to me.

If I was to ever consider a god, I wouldn't follow a faith. I'd follow my own, to live, to breath, and suvive and make babies for generations. Defintely with all these different types of gods... It's like risking all you got on the lottery.

And here is the first example of what i expect to be many narrow minded opinions

[Manhattan]

It's called a belief for a reason, you either believe in something or you don't. Fact? there is no fact that god exists, it's all based around belief so it's basically a yes or no answer, do you believe in god or do you not?

It's not as simple as that. Perception of what is true or untrue is built by a process called conditioning. If someone was to disbelieve that god exists, it doesn't make it true.

I hate that the human race thinks that something came from nothing, what if nothing was always there? and the expansion we see is just our limit of light distance at the moment, the light expanding through the universe, rather than an explosion expanding through it, because with out light, you see "Nothing" but something is in that light always.

You almost have the right idea. The fact of the matter is now we are beginning to really understand the theory of dimensions, there are things that our eyes cannot actually see since they are not in our wavelength. Does this make them non-existent? Of course not. Your explaination is flawed by the fact you do not appreciate that what we consider to be 'light' could in fact be only half of the equation, let me put it to you in some more simple terms: since we can only see at a certain wavelength, and our computers only generate a certain amount of mathematic and logical power, there are so many things we do not in fact see. So light to us is what we consider to give us the ability to view objects and each other, however should we find our that there are other atoms, like photons (light particles) in other dimensions, this will prove that what we consider to be light may be as ineffective and insignificant as we ourselves are to the universe. Einstein once asked one of his quantum physicians, "If we never looked at the moon, would it really exist?", he didn't have an answer for him, just because we 'see' nothing doesn't mean it's not actually there.

To highlight my arguement, I'd like to point you towards the famous two slit experiment.
One photon of light is shot through a piece of led which has two very small slits thousands of times, a backboard is behind the piece of lead in order to gather the results. On the first experiment, the backboard registered that the photons created three lines. Scientists were dumbfounded, how on earth could three lines be created by the two slits? The only next logical move would be to actually view the photon of light as it passes through the two slits, so we can see exactly what happens to it.

They set the camera up, and let the experiment run through out the night. When they checked the results, they were even more dumbstruck when the backboard registered two lines rather than three. What could possibly have changed? The camera was recording the light.

To this day, it still cannot be explained.

GREAT POINT BRO! Wish more people would realize that ALOT of Science is theory.. I also did Physics year 11 and 12 at school, so I have been through all that type of thing.
Evolution has MANY flaws, Big Bang has even more flaws, and yes Christianity has flaws, but don't we all?
Christianity and belief in God is a faith based relationship. But hey, aren't all relationships?

Physics, mathematics and science is based on a very true concept which is:

Where is there is life, there is pattern, where there is pattern there is mathematics.

Religion does not have certain rules (In terms of proving it's reality). It cannot be compared to our most effective system of figuring out the truth of the world we inhabit it, mathematics.

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That's enough of my ranting. I'd like to explain to you a little story which I was told and now believe to be the truth. Werner Heisenberg was a german physicist, he specialized in quantum physics. In 1922 a newspaper article was published of him running down the street naked, throwing his own faeces at police officers and generally going completely crazy. This was due to a discovery he made in his lab. Atoms ALWAYS follow their natural course. There is nothing you can actually do to break them free from their natural course.

He, at the time didn't realize the importance of what he found out, but reality was about the dissipate right before his eyes. The very same atoms he was inspecting through the microscope, were the very same atoms his microscope was made of, which are the very same atoms the room he was standing in was made of, and ultimately, the very same atoms that we are ALL made from. What does this mean? Well let's examine what he reportedly had said to a police officer that tried to arrest him.

The tree, he ranted to the police who tried to coax him down, would always grow according to the quality of the soil and the rainfall and the air and the genetic code in the seed from which it grew.

"If you change one factor, you change the tree!" slurred Heisenberg, "It is as sure as flipping a switch! As it is for the tree, it is for the man in the tree!"

"Don't you get it? What this tree will look like ten years from now is decided completely by forces set into motion billions of years ago. And we're made of the same stuff!"

"Well," chuckled one of the officers, "I could have that tree cut down right now! That would show the universe who's boss! We'll see what the cosmic elements have to say about that!"

"You fool! Don't you realize that the lumberjack is himself formed by the same elements as the tree? The tree grows and sprouts green, the lumberjack lumberjacks, but both do it by the same cause-and-effect domino fall. If he cuts down the tree then he was always destined to cut it down! If he changes his mind then he was always destined to change his mind!"

The officer laughed and shook his head. He had heard all that before, way back in school, fate and free will and all that. Fortunately for him, he didn't fully realize what Heisenberg was saying.

"Don't you worry, sir," said the officer as he helped Heisenberg into the police van. "The future is what you make it! Just choose to do the right thing!"

Heisenberg let out a long laugh. "Fool! When you were a baby, you had a brain built on the genes handed down by your parents! And they got theirs from their parents, all the way back to the first life formed by an accidental cell mutation! And everything you've seen or heard in your life since was fired into your brain as electrical nerve impulses from your eyes and ears. We can measure those impulses! They are physical things! And each of those impulses, what you called 'sights' and 'sounds' threw certain chemical switches in your brain, all of which can also be observed and measured! And those switches, as they turn as predictably as gears in a clock, are what we call 'thoughts' and 'emotions!' And what you know as your 'self' is just the accumulation of chemical changes made to a genetic blueprint! We could change it in a lab! We could make you fall in love! We could make your soul from scratch! EVERYTHING YOU'VE EVER HEARD ABOUT FREE WILL VERSUS FATE CAN NOW BE MEASURED IN A LABORATORY! THE DEBATE IS OVER!"

So, this means that infact, your free-will may be non-existent.
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^ And thats another thing. I can't, and no one can I don't believe, contemplate what happens after death. Atheists believe it is just like a never-ending sleep. But you can't contemplate that. How does life just...end? There must be something after. I don't see how there can't be.

God has a mystical house for you after death? Get off it. It's simply untrue. Just as you were insignificantly born, you will insignificantly die too. There is nothing after death. Explain how the human body decays and yet mystically 'you' are present in his house.

A bit of a skewed question.

God, anyway.

That's odd, I never thought of you as religious.