End of the Union? Great Britain sliding into a constitutional crisis

[GommeInc]

I'm not entirely sure what to think of all this. On one hand they deserve the right to decide what they want to do with their country, but at the same time they're so heavily intertwined with England, Wales and Northern Ireland that they surely can't ever become truely indepedent - economically, socially etc. If the UK was no where near the EU they could survive, but because of the looming break down of the EU next door it sort of devalues Scotland as an independent country, and the United Kingdom/Great Britain in general.

[Jordy]

I really don't understand your whole free market economy and Hong Kong/Singapore babble Dan, it has no relevance and is confusing. From what I can understand you're trying to point out that Scotland could survive on its own with the right policies? That's quite obvious really. Any country could excel with the right policies, whether that be Hong Kong, Scotland, UK, Iraq or South Sudan. The SNP have made no mentions of wanting to become a free market economy and emulate the likes of Hong Kong and Singapore. It looks like the SNP will carry on with the welfare state etc in much the same way as it is now.

I've voted in this poll for Scottish independence as the current devolution in the UK is completely unacceptable, unfair and will only get worse. Seeing as there's not the option to go back to how it was before 1997 and most likely never will be (I'd have the whole UK controlled from London, not Cardiff, Belfast or Edinburgh) then I think Scottish independence is the way forward for England to prosper given the current scenario. Personally though I doubt Scotland would prosper in independence and based on current opinion polls and the difficult-nature of independence, I don't believe it will happen.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I really don't understand your whole free market economy and Hong Kong/Singapore babble Dan, it has no relevance and is confusing. From what I can understand you're trying to point out that Scotland could survive on its own with the right policies? That's quite obvious really. Any country could excel with the right policies, whether that be Hong Kong, Scotland, UK, Iraq or South Sudan. The SNP have made no mentions of wanting to become a free market economy and emulate the likes of Hong Kong and Singapore. It looks like the SNP will carry on with the welfare state etc in much the same way as it is now.

The relevance is that a lot of people are trying to base the argument around 'Scotland being such a small country wouldnt be able to survive economically' which is a dishonest argument and in my eyes, counter-productive to the Unionist cause. At the same time i've also said that there's no indication that an independent Scotland would change economic course, so would pretty much stay as it is (increasing debt, growing government etc). But the idea that Scotland would collapse overnight and is forever bound by the United Kingdom in terms of economic prosperity is rubbish, as shown by other small nation states around the world.

It is the same demeaning tosh that supporters of the European Union repeat to us, as a method of scaremongering us into staying put. Unlike supporters of the EU, I don't rely on untruths and fear to defend this Union.

I've voted in this poll for Scottish independence as the current devolution in the UK is completely unacceptable, unfair and will only get worse. Seeing as there's not the option to go back to how it was before 1997 and most likely never will be (I'd have the whole UK controlled from London, not Cardiff, Belfast or Edinburgh) then I think Scottish independence is the way forward for England to prosper given the current scenario. Personally though I doubt Scotland would prosper in independence and based on current opinion polls and the difficult-nature of independence, I don't believe it will happen.

Completely agree on devolution as ever, but there are ways to reverse devolution hence why I still think the Union is worth fighting for.

[Jordy]

Completely agree on devolution as ever, but there are ways to reverse devolution hence why I still think the Union is worth fighting for.

Hmm I have to disagree with you on reversing devolution. I can't ever see a situation where the good people of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland would agree to their local parliament being abolished in favour of giving power back to London. No one in the three countries seem to want that at all (It's part of their de facto mindset now), chances are the situation will only get worse with more power-grabs from Westminster in the future.

The only chance of Westminster clawing back power is from... Brussels, not from within the UK.

Edit: Hate this **** forum removing my spaces between words!

[Inseriousity.]

Hmm interesting telegraph comment but slightly contradicting. if the scots aren't even aware of their own history/culture ("no-one has heard of william wallace, until Mel Gibson"... etc)then would it really achieve anything using those same arguments for pro-union? this isn't a dig at the scots btw, i dont think the english know much about their history, excluding ww2 and henryviiiwhich seems to be the only thing I remember being taught!

I do not want the union to break up because I don't think it would do any goodin the long run. However,with the current economic climate, I'd like a fairer system. By the sounds of it,while they obviously are paying something,it's not balanced due to the current formula (barnett?)that is used. I don't really know much about it so can't reallygive an informed opinion about it but it doesappearon first glance to be entirely unfair.

[cocaine]

Hong Kong and Singapore are not the same no, but they both have economic systems which are very free; free of high taxation & free of regulation. If an independent Scotland would be prepared to mirror these countries/regions more closely, then it too would be able to enjoy remarkable economic success - but that would mean an end to big government, something which is incredibly unlikely in the short to medium term.

As for the rest, I am not talking about where these places rank on the biggest economies list - i'm talking about wealth per person in each country. While Brazil is beginning to develop, its development has not yet reached the likes of Chile because of its late adoption and continuing adopting of free market economics whereas Chile quickly got through with this under the Pinochet regime during the 1980s. In very much the same way that the economy of China is bigger than that of the United Kingdom, yet per person we are much wealthier.

My overall point is, that it is unwise to delude ourselves and Scottish voters that 'Scotland couldnt be a success economically' when it could, however unlikely that may be at this moment in time.



All taxes, whenever government taxes - it removes money from the real economy, the private sector. Likewise whenever the government regulates, it again removes money from the private sector.

fair enough. i assumed you meant GDP, not GDP per head. i still doubt scotland could hold its own. especially in this climate

[Ajthedragon]

Seems a shame to ruin all that history.

Devolve more powers but theseparationof the union is a sad thought. Plus think of how awful the Union Jack would look!

[Chippiewill]

I personally do not care if they want to leave or not, but if they stay they better not ***** about it.

However, they joined for their own benefit and we stopped them being locked out of the global economy and the only reason they have for leaving is "don't like the english / we'll do better independently" (Which is **** because they get more tax money per person than England), also if an Ireland type deal happens again that that'll be a massive pain.