Senator Rand Paul detained at US airport

[FlyingJesus]

"I didn't stab him, you must have seen it wrong. Let me do it again and then we'll know for sure"

Extreme example obv but the idea that anyone can just say "nah that's wrong" when they're flagged for a security breach is flat out stupid. Also you've confused the actual ideology of individual liberty (being allowed to do as you please when it affects no-one else) with anarchy (no-one can stop me no matter who or what I may affect) when you claim that this is a matter of liberty.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The search was justified as soon as he set off the alarms. Public safety is the priority of security at airports, not Rand Paul’s pride, whether it was due to a fault or not, the alarm indicated that he had something on him which is why the search was deemed necessary. It’s not as if the security guard pulled out gloves ready for a body cavity search.

Jesus Christ - he offered to go through the scanner again to make sure, they refused, why is this? see above.

"I didn't stab him, you must have seen it wrong. Let me do it again and then we'll know for sure"

Extreme example obv but the idea that anyone can just say "nah that's wrong" when they're flagged for a security breach is flat out stupid. Also you've confused the actual ideology of individual liberty (being allowed to do as you please when it affects no-one else) with anarchy (no-one can stop me no matter who or what I may affect) when you claim that this is a matter of liberty.

He offered to go through the scanner again, a very simple request which would have proven whether Rand Paul was correct or the TSA - the TSA refused, because it was obvious he was not a security threat either because as he states; the machines are not very good or the machines are being set off randomly which is nothing to do with security at all and is a violation of somebodies rights as they are being searched purely on a random basis.

As for anarchy vs liberty, no i'm not confusing the two at all.

[Chippiewill]

Please see this - http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...ul_112889.html

Procedure is procedure and human error is what costs lives. More lives are lost by pilots disobeying inflight computers and ATC due to their "Better judgement and discretion" than those who follow procedure to the letter and ignore discretion so that risk is reduced. By ALWAYS doing a pat down you assure that nothing is ever missed.

[The Don]

Jesus Christ - he offered to go through the scanner again to make sure, they refused, why is this? see above.

What's the use of walking back through a malfunctioning scanner when you can simply have a 10 second pat down search?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Procedure is procedure and human error is what costs lives. More lives are lost by pilots disobeying inflight computers and ATC due to their "Better judgement and discretion" than those who follow procedure to the letter and ignore discretion so that risk is reduced. By ALWAYS doing a pat down you assure that nothing is ever missed.

Why don't we pat everyone down then even if the scanner doesn't go off is what you are arguing right? why not have everybody strip off before flying and carry ID cards aswell then?

...because of course, we don't want to miss anything!

What's the use of walking back through a malfunctioning scanner when you can simply have a 10 second pat down search?

You might prefer a pat down, those of us who prefer to be treated innocent until proven guilty prefer the scanner.

I ask again, whats the problem with the scanner request?

[Chippiewill]

Why don't we pat everyone down then even if the scanner doesn't go off is what you are arguing right? why not have everybody strip off before flying and carry ID cards aswell then?

Well there isn't the time for it so instead just pat down those who set of the scanner and random pat downs of any other people.

I ask again, whats the problem with the scanner request?

Human Error.

You might prefer a pat down, those of us who prefer to be treated innocent until proven guilty prefer the scanner.

Patdown reveals evidence of guilt.

[The Don]

Why don't we pat everyone down then even if the scanner doesn't go off is what you are arguing right? why not have everybody strip off before flying and carry ID cards aswell then? because of course, we don't want to miss anything!



You might prefer a pat down, those of us who prefer to be treated innocent until proven guilty prefer the scanner.

I ask again, whats the problem with the scanner request?

He was innocent until the scanner went off which then proved him guilty

[-:Undertaker:-]

Well there isn't the time for it so instead just pat down those who set of the scanner and random pat downs of any other people.

But surely human lives are worth an extra ten minutes so we can fight the terrorist threat?

Human Error.

A machine will not do human error, either the machines are faulty and are a security risk in themselves or they are on a random setting in which case the TSA are telling lies.

He was innocent until the scanner went off which then proved him guilty

Er wrong actually, because he was found to have nothing on him. So for the hundredth time, either the machines are faulty (a security risk) or they are on a random setting (which isnt related to security).

[Chippiewill]

But surely human lives are worth an extra ten minutes so we can fight the terrorist threat?

If there's a high chance of getting caught on scanners / random checks (In fact most people going through american security tend to get some form of random security check, either bag or pat down) it's all-most as much as a deterrent as everyone getting a pat-down at a fraction of the cost.

A machine will not do human error, either the machines are faulty and are a security risk in themselves or they are on a random setting in which case the TSA are telling lies.

The person deciding whether to pat down or let them go through again does however, don't ask me how it would be exploited I don't spend my day doing that. However any security expert will tell you that it's not worth taking that sort of risk.

He was innocent until the scanner went off which then proved him guilty

The scanner provided reasonable evidence for guilt which gives the TSA a good enough reason for what is actually an unintrusive pat down.

[The Don]

Er wrong actually, because he was found to have nothing on him. So for the hundredth time, either the machines are faulty (a security risk) or they are on a random setting (which isnt related to security).

Exactly, the machine was faulty but it still indicated he needed to be searched, there would be no point in making someone walk through a broken scanner twice (It would just go off again so he would eventually have to be searched regardless), and if it is company policy to search those who set off the alarms I’d rather security abide by their regulations.