14 people dead at Batman Film Premiere

[GommeInc]

Er yes there is, self defence - the entire purpose of owning a gun is self defence. Therefore the idea that guns 'have no purpose' is complete nonsense. If you don't want to be protected against gun wielding criminals then thats entirely your choice, but if I do wish to protect myself and my family with a gun then i'm entirely right to do so. Indeed, you could even say its basic common sense.

I saw the comparison today of maybe we should ban spoons as spoons also kill people (more infact) due to unhealthy eating. Spoons and guns do not kill people, only a person can do that.

I seem to find they're being used on the offensive than the defensive these days. The argument for self-defense is just not that simple, and far too many people lose their guns or have their guns used against them.

Besides, it's never a "Government v The Population", what about those who support the Government? If the US Government were to magically warrant the use of the Second Amendment, the Government will win. The military will support the Government who obviously pays them - and then you have weapons available to the military which will out do the stuff Americans can buy over the counter. Then you get those people who support the Government who will just shoot at those who disagree with them (and vice versa) for the sake of having differences. It's not a good argument to allow guns because you have differences with the US Government or each other, as the common use seems to be (as well as simply having stuff someone else wants and will take by force).

Basic common sense would be not supplying the population with weapons to kill each other, there is no way to moderate a gun system and those who will wrongly use them or want them will be worse than those who rarely use them in the chance of being attacked and needing a form of defense.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I seem to find they're being used on the offensive than the defensive these days.

So essentially a few nutters are abusing them? that is the point in having guns in the first place.

A great deal of people abuse fast food, driving, smoking, drugs, knives and many many other examples - yet should we have government regulate these areas, remove our rights because of a few?

The argument for self-defense is just not that simple, and far too many people lose their guns or have their guns used against them.

In which case that is the calculated risk you take when you buy a gun, just as when you buy a car, have gay sex, unprotected sex or purchase a packet of cigarettes - let people choose themselves.

Besides, it's never a "Government v The Population", what about those who support the Government? If the US Government were to magically warrant the use of the Second Amendment, the Government will win. The military will support the Government who obviously pays them - and then you have weapons available to the military which will out do the stuff Americans can buy over the counter. Then you get those people who support the Government who will just shoot at those who disagree with them (and vice versa) for the sake of having differences. It's not a good argument to allow guns because you have differences with the US Government or each other, as the common use seems to be (as well as simply having stuff someone else wants and will take by force).

Oh indeed the government could win in this hypothetical takeover of government - but it is not assured. Without gun rights (and only government having a monopoly over arms) then you will be assured that 'the people' will lose against the regime because they haven't even got any guns to start off with in the first place, hence why places such as Syria/Libya and others have had to smuggle in guns - because tyrannical governments will not want an armed population. Again, using historical examples, it is the reason why Switzerland has continued to exist as a sovereign nation despite being a small country settled inbetween major historicla European powers.

Basic common sense would be not supplying the population with weapons to kill each other, there is no way to moderate a gun system and those who will wrongly use them or want them will be worse than those who rarely use them in the chance of being attacked and needing a form of defense.

Why does it need 'moderating'? at the end of the day, bad people will use guns anyway because they can (regardless of your moderation system) and good people will either be armed against the bad people or not armed.

The choice boils down to, do you want good people armed against those who are bad - because guns will still exist whatever you wish, its as much good as trying to wish away the atomic bomb.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Ice-T is spot on, just had this short clip come to my attention.

Government uses tragedy as a platform from which to argue for more governmental control and interference.

[Stephen]

Undertaker you're such an idiot

[GirlNextDoor15]

Why is that? I second Undertaker because it's true. Statistics have indirectly reported that no matter guns are banned or legalized, the usage of guns is still there. Whether it's high or low, that's another issue due to weak law enforcement etc. etc. You obviously can't blame James Holmes for killing 14. This is not the first case. In fact, back in 2007, a massacre took place in Virginia Tech killing 33 people including students and a teacher. We have lots and lots of cases like this but nothing has been done to change the reality that misuse of weapons is dangerous. So, that's where education comes in handy. Not simply banning guns or legalizing guns. What about knives, grenades and so on? Are we gonna ban forks too because forks are apparently lethal etc? The problem's not guns but WEAPONS.

for further info, this article is brilliant. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...ed-sky/260147/

[FiftyCal]

placing laws will only effect law abiding citizens while it will not effect the criminals

[Jarkie]

[GommeInc]

So essentially a few nutters are abusing them? that is the point in having guns in the first place.

A great deal of people abuse fast food, driving, smoking, drugs, knives and many many other examples - yet should we have government regulate these areas, remove our rights because of a few?

So the point of having guns is to arm nutters? This argument doesn't seem to be working for you.

Fast food, driving, smoking, drugs and knives aren't designed primarily to kill. Guns on the other hand are designed to serve purpose of killing or wounding.

In which case that is the calculated risk you take when you buy a gun, just as when you buy a car, have gay sex, unprotected sex or purchase a packet of cigarettes - let people choose themselves.

Well clearly in America they prefer to be trigger happy and feed some primal urge to shoot first and think later, or to arm clearly disturbed individuals who should never be allowed near guns. This case incl. innocent individuals like 6 year olds who shouldn't of fallen to such a pointless need to arm yourself for literally no reason, unless you're suggesting this 6 year old had a small pocket gun and was prepared to kill too?

Oh indeed the government could win in this hypothetical takeover of government - but it is not assured. Without gun rights (and only government having a monopoly over arms) then you will be assured that 'the people' will lose against the regime because they haven't even got any guns to start off with in the first place, hence why places such as Syria/Libya and others have had to smuggle in guns - because tyrannical governments will not want an armed population. Again, using historical examples, it is the reason why Switzerland has continued to exist as a sovereign nation despite being a small country settled inbetween major historicla European powers.

It is pretty much assured. Military grade weaponry versus the weaponry you can buy over the counter in the US is rather evident of this, given the fact that it will never happen that the Government would go against its people. It's an unprecedent and irrational fear that seems to be driving people to kill each other rather than serve an actual purpose.

Why does it need 'moderating'? at the end of the day, bad people will use guns anyway because they can (regardless of your moderation system) and good people will either be armed against the bad people or not armed.

Makes it difficult for the "bad people" to get hold of such weaponry and reduces the number of weaponry in circulation. That said, it's too late now to bring in a system to moderate gun sales - an outdated and purely unnecessary section of the constitution based on a fear of Government has pretty much destroyed any hope of moving Americans away from the need of gun ownership, especially when they're not being used for their purpose as stated in the constitution.

Why is that? I second Undertaker because it's true. Statistics have indirectly reported that no matter guns are banned or legalized, the usage of guns is still there. Whether it's high or low, that's another issue due to weak law enforcement etc. etc. You obviously can't blame James Holmes for killing 14. This is not the first case. In fact, back in 2007, a massacre took place in Virginia Tech killing 33 people including students and a teacher. We have lots and lots of cases like this but nothing has been done to change the reality that misuse of weapons is dangerous. So, that's where education comes in handy. Not simply banning guns or legalizing guns. What about knives, grenades and so on? Are we gonna ban forks too because forks are apparently lethal etc? The problem's not guns but WEAPONS.

for further info, this article is brilliant. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...ed-sky/260147/

The idea that "education solves everything" is baseless and clearly doesn't solve anything. Not all criminals are brainless, some have logically analysed each part of their crime. You do know this individual is/was a neuro-science student, who set up traps in his apartment? Quite amazing for someone who must be incredibly thick. We're all taught basic morality, yet we wander from the path because we either like to bend the rules, have no use for them in certain situations or just want to be human. An education will simply not solve the problem, especially when some people are either unwilling to learn (either because of some mental illness or lack of interest) or are pushed to commit a crime because it's the only way for them or it logically makes sense.

[GirlNextDoor15]

First of all, I would like to correct you on this.

''Fast food, driving, smoking, drugs and knives aren't designed primarily to kill. Guns on the other hand are designed to serve purpose of killing or wounding.''

Yes. Fast food and so on aren't designed primarily to kill. So are guns. But behold! Here comes the million dollar question. Why were guns invented? To answer that, it all goes back to cannons which came from rockets and rockets which came from Chinese fire-arrows and fire-arrows which came from gunpowder discovered by Chinese alchemists in 9th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder
According to Wikipedia,

Gunpowder, also known since the late 19th century as black powder, was the first chemical explosive and the only one known until the mid 1800s.

Gunpowder was, according to prevailing academic consensus, discovered in the 9th century in China, attributed to Chinese alchemists searching for an elixir of immortality.

Gunpowder was invented, documented, and used in China where the Chinese military forces used gunpowder-based weapons technology (i.e. rockets, guns, cannon), and explosives (i.e. grenades and different types of bombs) against the Mongols when the Mongols attempted to invade and breach the Chinese city fortifications on the northern borders of China.

Fyi, Chinese hated Mongolians because according to history, Mongolians were known as barbarians. It was always like that and that was their culture. And I don't think it was racist or whatever but rather a clash of cultures. Even if they didn't invent gunpowder, they would still use arrows or any other weapons (i.e knives etc) to protect themselves from Mongolians. Therefore, gunpowder wasn't created to kill or wound others for the sake of doing that but rather protecting themselves which is always essential in society.

And if you're trying to say that we're talking about guns and not gunpowder.. here's what I'm gonna tell you. Guns won't be guns if there's no bullet and bullets won't be bullets if there's no powder. Hence, gunpowder..

The idea that "education solves everything" is baseless and clearly doesn't solve anything. Not all criminals are brainless, some have logically analysed each part of their crime. You do know this individual is/was a neuro-science student, who set up traps in his apartment? Quite amazing for someone who must be incredibly thick. We're all taught basic morality, yet we wander from the path because we either like to bend the rules, have no use for them in certain situations or just want to be human. An education will simply not solve the problem, especially when some people are either unwilling to learn (either because of some mental illness or lack of interest) or are pushed to commit a crime because it's the only way for them or it logically makes sense.

Knew this would come. Different environments and different cultures will cause different behaviors in different people. Let's take Zimbabwe as an example. Guns are banned but does it help to reduce gun violence anywhere in Zimbabwe? If the people in Zimbabwe wants to carry a gun, it'll not be a problem even though guns are banned because weak law enforcement and government as well as low literacy rate. They don't even know how to read and write; let alone what's right and what's wrong. All they've been doing is learning from the adults and if we can educate the kids about how guns will affect someone, then maybe something's gonna change because obviously, banning or legalizing guns haven't changed anything so far.

Other than that, banning guns in US will for sure give lots of stuff for the ppl to talk about and legalizing it would be really dangerous. I won't feel comfortable when everyone's holding a gun while I'm eating at a cafe or smth. And yeah. Education's the most important one along with reinforcing laws. Government must show a good example for their people too because all we've seen so far is USA invades ... ... ....

[Foregetfuhl]

I think its so sad that someone would actually do that.. They even shot a three month old baby point blank.. i mean really.. its horrible! And he said he was the joker..? i mean... really...? People like this make me feel sick