Gun Control: Should civilians be allowed to possess firearms? [ENDS 30/12/2012]

[-:Undertaker:-]

Theft laws only affect law abiding citizens, therefore everything should be up for grabs in a free-for-all

Driving laws only affect law abiding citizens, therefore children should drive

Medical laws only affect law abiding citizens, therefore everyone should be allowed to perform surgery

Drug laws only affect law abiding citizens, therefore everyone should be allowed to take drugs.

But you support that, don't you Tom?

[The Don]

There were 6,285 firearm offences recorded by police in England and Wales from September 2010 to September 2011 which accounted for 0.2% of all recorded crime. Here’s the interesting part, 9.3% of all homicides in England and Wales involved the use of a firearm (meaning over 90% of all homicides did not involve a gun) this is polarised by California’s statistics where over 2/3rd’s of all murders during 2011 (68%) were committed using a gun. If Dan's (and anybody else who thinks arming everybody solves the issue) argument was valid then the percentage of murders committed using a firearm would be far higher than it actually is. Since a gun is superior to any other weapon such as knives etc. then by your logic all murders committed would include a firearm of some sort since every criminal, according to you, can easily obtain a firearm. In the real world, it is much harder to obtain a gun if they are banned (using the UK as an example) than you actually think it is. Legalising them would certainly have a negative effect and would be senseless to do so.

Rather than fighting fire with fire by placing armed guards in schools, which is preposterous might I add, the US should focus more on mental health care and preventing things such as columbine (where there actually was an armed guard on duty there at the time who was unable to keep the 13 students murdered safe) before they actually happen.

[FlyingJesus]

Drug laws only affect law abiding citizens, therefore everyone should be allowed to take drugs.

But you support that, don't you Tom?

Yes (in private areas) because that doesn't affect anyone other than the user. Shooting people, kids on the road, and performing surgery all involve other people

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yes (in private areas) because that doesn't affect anyone other than the user. Shooting people, kids on the road, and performing surgery all involve other people

Actually, drugs do affect people to such an extent in terms of mental health that you end up with people becoming insane from drug taking. I posted in the current affairs forum the link that Hitchens points out that exists between drugs (mainly anti-depressants) and these gun massacres and would be interested to hear your thoughts on that.

Even though I detest drugs and accept that there will be a greater risk to everyone by legalising them, I believe in negative freedoms - and it's the same with guns. A greater risk is the price we pay for enhanced freedom. If you want the freedom to make yourself mad with dangerous drugs, I ask for the very least in that I have the ability to protect myself, especially from those who take drugs and who tend to be part of the criminal class/mentally unstable.

Shooting people

It'll only affect you if you come into my house and threaten my life and property.

[FiftyCal]

Theft laws only affect law abiding citizens, therefore everything should be up for grabs in a free-for-all

Driving laws only affect law abiding citizens, therefore children should drive

Medical laws only affect law abiding citizens, therefore everyone should be allowed to perform surgery

Oh, criminals like to follow the laws too, so they should be allowed to perform surgery on anyone for sure manyne

[FlyingJesus]

Actually, drugs do affect people to such an extent in terms of mental health that you end up with people becoming insane from drug taking. I posted in the current affairs forum the link that Hitchens points out that exists between drugs (mainly anti-depressants) and these gun massacres and would be interested to hear your thoughts on that.

Even though I detest drugs and accept that there will be a greater risk to everyone by legalising them, I believe in negative freedoms - and it's the same with guns. A greater risk is the price we pay for enhanced freedom. If you want the freedom to make yourself mad with dangerous drugs, I ask for the very least in that I have the ability to protect myself, especially from those who take drugs and who tend to be part of the criminal class/mentally unstable.

Psychoses from drug-taking tend to be enhanced versions of pre-existing conditions rather than ones concocted by the chemicals from scratch, and it would certainly be worth looking into the number of drug users who do already have poor mental health before making ridiculous statements that drugs will lead to killings. The huge number of drug takers and tiny number of gunmen suggest that anyone so unstable that they shoot up a school would have already been that sort of person and that the drugs are somewhat unimportant in the case - more likely they are simply in the person's life because they have a disregard for authority and people seem to love their little "bobba the police" phases when they're stressed.

It'll only affect you if you come into my house and threaten my life and property.

That's something which I've already said I wouldn't wholly oppose, but this discussion has been more about guns in public and state-owned areas, in which case it certainly would not only affect others in that situation

Oh, criminals like to follow the laws too, so they should be allowed to perform surgery on anyone for sure manyne

This is not a sentence, I have no idea how to reply to this

[Chippiewill]

Rather than fighting fire with fire by placing armed guards in schools.

On a sidenote, at the columbine(?) school shooting incident years ago there WAS an armed guard at the school, had a brief firefight with the offendee and achieved nothing, in fact he protected all of one out of the many entrances to the school. So realistically to defend a school you'd need 4-6 (That's still unrealistic), highly trained, spot-on expert marksmen who are used to stressful situations per school to successfully have legalised guns and at the same time protect all the children. Considering each of these people would have to be paid on the order of $60,000 PA minimum (For all the training they've gone through, risk to life, amongst other things) you'd be looking at tens/hundreds of billions of dollars just to keep fully automatic and concealable weapons legal. And then this is suceptible to slippery slope anyway as since the devastation at movie theatres is clear you'd need them all in movie theatres and generally everywhere in public.

[Andii]

Tbh there should be a license for guns just te way it is now, and it has to be out in a Cabnet out of sight and secure where the police have to come and check aswell as having a safe for animation.

My brother has 2 guns which are used for hunting as in foxes and rabbits and birds, I don't see the point in having a law which bans them, only and idiot with a gun would use it to kill people, guns are dangerous yea but to ban them cometely ly is just stupid, should sex not be banned If people are dying from HIV and aids???? Should knives not be banned as I hear more about stabbing rather than shooting, it is really sad as a man was murdered by a gunshot driving to work in the mornin who lives near me and it was sad for all of Northern Ireland.

[Kardan]

People that say "Oh cars kill people should we ban them?" "Oh, sex kills people should be ban that?" really annoy me. Anything can kill someone, some old lady died because a banana was dropped on her, and people die.from using the toilet. Heck, women die from childbirth lets ban having children.

[karter]

16 years ago in Dunblane, Scotland, a man entered a primary school armed with four handguns and killed sixteen children and one adult before committing suicide. The following year, the UK government banned the private ownership of all cartridge ammunition handguns, regardless of caliber. There hasn’t been a school shooting since.

This says a lot.