Margaret Thatcher Dies at 87

[Ardemax]

Begin a programme where government departments are reduced by say 20% per year which allows the private sector then to slowly take up job losses and create new jobs for those who have just lost their jobs. I'm telling you now that its going to have to happen, its just whether we do it by choice or by no choice when we've gone bankrupt.

The amount of people who are employed in the public sector isn't sustainable.

Agreed on your last point. But to privatise everything in order to create these private sector jobs would have horrific consequences, yes?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Agreed on your last point. But to privatise everything in order to create these private sector jobs would have horrific consequences, yes?

No, why should it? i'm not arguing that we demolish the state from 45% odd of GDP to 30% or below overnight. As I said, have a measured programme whereby government departments lay off 20% staff a year, and look at entire areas (ie, the railways) which could be privatised entirely quickly.

How far to go of course would depend on the governments mandate, personally i'd like to see Health and Education privatised pretty quickly but that'd be politically impossible without years of advocation and argument beforehand... so we'd have to work with what we've got.

[Ardemax]

No, why should it? i'm not arguing that we demolish the state from 45% odd of GDP to 30% or below overnight. As I said, have a measured programme whereby government departments lay off 20% staff a year, and look at entire areas (ie, the railways) which could be privatised entirely quickly.

How far to go of course would depend on the governments mandate, personally i'd like to see Health and Education privatised pretty quickly but that'd be politically impossible without years of advocation and argument beforehand... so we'd have to work with what we've got.

So every family who wants their children to go to school will have to pay astronomical private fees?!

[-:Undertaker:-]

So every family who wants their children to go to school will have to pay astronomical private fees?!

You don't understand how it works do you. Think about it, if i'm to dismantle the state slowly then the tax money which goes to pay for those schools would be refunded and given back to families and individuals. At the moment, is education free? of course not. The only difference is that it has the illusion of being free in that the state takes money away from you in heavy taxation, spends on education (and with a lot of waste thrown in) and then says "da da, here's some free education" - well it's not free education.

If the state spends 20% less on education this year, then 20% must be given back in tax cuts. And so on and so on.

"Idiots don't realise how expensive 'free stuff' is." - Peter Schiff

Education would be one of my last areas anyway, i'd much rather get the state out of the big one which is healthcare.

[Ardemax]

You don't understand how it works do you. Think about it, if i'm to dismantle the state slowly then the tax money which goes to pay for those schools would be refunded and given back to families and individuals. At the moment, is education free? of course not. The only difference is that it has the illusion of being free in that the state takes money away from you in heavy taxation, spends on education (and with a lot of waste thrown in) and then says "da da, here's some free education" - well it's not free education.

If the state spends 20% less on education this year, then 20% must be given back in tax cuts. And so on and so on.



Education would be one of my last areas anyway, i'd much rather get the state out of the big one which is healthcare.

I do understand how it works, yes. Except I know my parents certainly don't have to pay around £15,000 a year (up to £35,000) JUST for education. That's my point.

If everything was privatised it would cost a fortune for a working family to afford. If everyone chips in a little bit (e.g. taxes), then it becomes a more manageable sum.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I do understand how it works, yes. Except I know my parents certainly don't have to pay around £15,000 a year (up to £35,000) JUST for education. That's my point.

If everything was privatised it would cost a fortune for a working family to afford. If everyone chips in a little bit (e.g. taxes), then it becomes a more manageable sum.

Wrong, because the competition would bring price crashing right down.

It is because there is no competition that private schools can charge such prices at the present.

[Ardemax]

Wrong, because the competition would bring price crashing right down.

We're still talking uni prices for school placements though, right?

[-:Undertaker:-]

We're still talking uni prices for school placements though, right?

A schools market would be cheaper seeing as a) wages for staffing aren't as high b) there's a bigger market for it c) school resources aren't required at the same level as universities.

Because the state does it now (runs education) we're all paying more for it than we would if it were privatised, because the state is very good at wasting money. It's just because you don't directly pay the school, you don't notice it. It really wouldn't surprise me if private schools managed to provide a x2 better education at half the price it costs to run a state school.

[Ardemax]

A schools market would be cheaper seeing as a) wages for staffing aren't as high b) there's a bigger market for it c) school resources aren't required at the same level as universities.

Because the state does it now (runs education) we're all paying more for it than we would if it were privatised, because the state is very good at wasting money. It's just because you don't directly pay the school, you don't notice it. It really wouldn't surprise me if private schools managed to provide a x2 better education at half the price it costs to run a state school.

I guess there's going to be the inevitable problem of insuring that all the teachers are up to a respectable teaching standard, what with no universal regulations. Your thoughts?

[-:Undertaker:-]

I guess there's going to be the inevitable problem of insuring that all the teachers are up to a respectable teaching standard, what with no universal regulations. Your thoughts?

Some schools would be better than others, just as they are now. However, as schools are pitted against one another in competition it will be imperative that the school in question improve otherwise it'll suffer financially - whereas at the moment it doesn't matter all that much, as the school is unlikely to lose funding (although in recent years this has been a tactic of the state to improve schools).

It's the same with voting as with funding - if something is bad and doesn't work properly, it will only improve when brought under pressure.