Transgender woman wants to fight in women's MMA

[-:Undertaker:-]

In the eyes of the law I was born a minor, am I still a minor?

Same argument for people that say they weren't born gay but later became gay...

It's called change

A Laburnum sapling that grows up may not be a sapling anymore, but it's remained a Laburnum tree throughout its life because its DNA cannot be changed - even if I stuck or even grafted Cherry Tree branches onto the Laburnum, it'd still be a Laburnum.

The fact we even debate whether a man who has his penis taken off and a false vagina put on (whilst taking hormone injections throughout his life) is a woman or not shows how warped reality has become.

Yes, you're right, but in this case, why does the gender at birth override the current gender? Would you describe someone who was born with blonde hair, but naturally darkened to brown as they grew up, as a blonde?

Or would you say someone who lost both legs in a car accident as having both legs, since they were born with both legs?

As far as i'm aware, on forms it asks what sex you are - and your sex isn't something you can change through any amount of operations. What gender you 'identify' with doesn't matter in the slightest; if a contest is male-only then by any standard or sane definition that means males only due to the fact males are a different sex and are different to females in many ways.

As for the legs example, they should have legs but don't because of a tragic accident. The should being the important point. Just as somebody born as the sex classification of a male should have a penis but in some cases doesn't - doesn't mean they aren't still a male.

I could lose my penis and limbs in some horrific accident and then call myself a female - i'm still a male, as my DNA and bone structure proves.

[Adam]

In the eyes of the law I was born a minor, am I still a minor?

Same argument for people that say they weren't born gay but later became gay...

It's called change

Are you kidding me with this? So if I have plastic surgery to look like a dog, eat dog food and do dog stuff does that make me a dog?

[Kardan]

A Laburnum sapling that grows up may not be a sapling anymore, but it's remained a Laburnum tree throughout its life because its DNA cannot be changed - even if I stuck or even grafted Cherry Tree branches onto the Laburnum, it'd still be a Laburnum.

The fact we even debate whether a man who has his penis taken off and a false vagina put on (whilst taking hormone injections throughout his life) is a woman or not shows how warped reality has become.


As far as i'm aware, on forms it asks what sex you are - and your sex isn't something you can change through any amount of operations. What gender you 'identify' with doesn't matter in the slightest; if a contest is male-only then by any standard or sane definition that means males only due to the fact males are a different sex and are different to females in many ways.

As for the legs example, they should have legs but don't because of a tragic accident. The should being the important point. Just as somebody born as the sex classification of a male should have a penis but in some cases doesn't - doesn't mean they aren't still a male.

I could lose my penis and limbs in some horrific accident and then call myself a female - i'm still a male, as my DNA and bone structure proves.

So what about hermaphrodites? What gender are they? Do they get to enter male/female only competitions?

[JACKTARD]

Will her body not produce certain hormones to give her an advantage over other women? They wouldn't be able to take certain hormones to get an advantage so why should she be able to?

[-:Undertaker:-]

So what about hermaphrodites? What gender are they? Do they get to enter male/female only competitions?

I don't know enough about them to comment. I'm talking about the examples i've provided. The point being is, the sex you are (and whether you can take part in male or female competitions) depends on what your DNA/bone structure say - not whether or not you've had your penis removed and take hormones injections to maintain false breasts

When we find a decomposed body from a few months, years or hundreds of years ago - we don't identify whether they were female or male by the clothes, sexual organ, birth certificate, lawful documents or hairstyle they had... we take a DNA sample and examine the bone structure and come to a conclusion. In the end when we end up in the ground, any pretence concerning what sex we 'felt' we were will rot away and the only thing that will remain is the truth; male or female bones containing male or female DNA.

[Adam]

Answer my question @Kardan

[Kardan]

Are you kidding me with this? So if I have plastic surgery to look like a dog, eat dog food and do dog stuff does that make me a dog?

I think cross species is a bit different to cross gender

---------- Post added 23-04-2013 at 03:44 PM ----------

I don't know enough about them to comment. I'm talking about the examples i've provided. The point being is, the sex you are (and whether you can take part in male or female competitions) depends on what your DNA/bone structure say - not whether or not you've had your penis removed and take hormones injections to maintain false breasts

When we find a decomposed body from a few months, years or hundreds of years ago - we don't identify whether they were female or male by the clothes, sexual organ, birth certificate, lawful documents or hairstyle they had... we take a DNA sample and examine the bone structure and come to a conclusion. In the end when we end up in the ground, any pretence concerning what sex we 'felt' we were will rot away and the only thing that will remain is the truth; male or female bones containing male or female DNA.

The points you make are pretty valid for the sex of a person, but I'm talking gender which is more fluid than sex I suppose at the end of the day it's up to the competition holders and whether they judge it on sex or gender.

[Cerys]

Don't know if this has been said, but I feel like contributing:

In the eyes of the law, if your birth certificate says man, you are a man. Even if you have a full sex change. If you were a man but now a woman, you can not marry a man because that's gay marriage. As much as I disagree with that < how is this any different? Your birth certificate says a man.

I think it'd be unfair.

[Adam]

I think cross species is a bit different to cross gender

That's discrimination.

[Kardan]

Don't know if this has been said, but I feel like contributing:

In the eyes of the law, if your birth certificate says man, you are a man. Even if you have a full sex change. If you were a man but now a woman, you can not marry a man because that's gay marriage. As much as I disagree with that < how is this any different? Your birth certificate says a man.

I think it'd be unfair.

My birth certificate has details on it that are not true now, so birth certificates aren't the judge of such things either I suppose DNA is probably the only thing that could truly identify a person's sex.

---------- Post added 23-04-2013 at 03:54 PM ----------

That's discrimination.

Everything can be discrimination if you really want it to be...