Brits are now poorer than the French, Swiss, Belgians, Swedes, Austrians, Aussies...

[Ardemax]

I agree that BTEC courses etc are pretty much pointless, but I imagine that the majority of people who pick these courses wouldn't benefit much from learning how to do the things taught at A-Level Maths/Science etc.

Then let's set up a decent vocational system that is of some value to their lives. Maybe start people on courses that typically colleges would offer?

[GommeInc]

Wait, are those the subjects they're teaching in schools now? Drama, Photography etc should either be after school clubs or part of a wider subject. My English Lit GCSE involved a tiny bit of drama which merged Shakespear and a trip to see Romeo and Juliet together in one, there shouldn't be an entire course set out for it as it's not important - Drama should be something taught at A-Level at the earliest where children can choose to take it, rather than be forced to learn it when they really should be learning something useful and academic.

It's bad enough my school has a PE GCSE :/

[Aiden]

we are just pooey ( some rich person give em a few bill plz?

[Reality]

we are just pooey ( some rich person give em a few bill plz?

Looking American there 'give em a few bill'

[AgnesIO]

Not good enough to be 12th or 6th in the top economies ranking. Britain, a world power only as far back as our grandparents age (and still a Great power) ought to be aiming to be in the very top grouping - certainly ahead of France and Germany. In 2000 we were the fourth top economy in the world and now we've sunken to sixth/seventh.

A lot of things are to blame, EU membership for example restricting our ability as a financial world power to trade properly with Eastern nations is a part of it - but not everything because as you can see, other countries in the EU are ahead of us. It goes right back to education, work ethic & morality, welfarism - everything. The country is in dire need of a complete overhaul, especially with the rising East - because Britain teaching drama, photography, trave & tourism and art in its terrible state comprehensive schools isn't going to match up to Chinese students (who greatly outnumber us) who are learning the sciences, maths, history and economics.

Sink or swim, and boy are we sinking.

The UK has nothing to offer to be a world power. You can blame EU membership all you like, but we were nothing like as powerful as we once were even in 1950 - when we were not involved in the EU at all for obvious reasons. Glad you did look at the other side too though - that other states in the EU have prospered (although it would be difficult to count either Germany or France, baring in mind the EEC's original intentions!)

Totally and utterly agree with the school system, we seriously need to start teaching core subjects again, and show young people the VALUE of them, people need to stop thinking about "getting on with life", and need to start trying to be something special - and frankly, that isn't done without being good with maths and science (and obviously English). The school system here is shocking, although I know many would argue the "creative"/"hands on" subjects are essential (or whatever they are called).

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I must say when I saw the title I thought it said "Brits are now more popular than" - no surprise to find out it wasn't something that positive!

[-:Undertaker:-]

The UK has nothing to offer to be a world power. You can blame EU membership all you like, but we were nothing like as powerful as we once were even in 1950 - when we were not involved in the EU at all for obvious reasons.

I said I didn't blame the EU for it and pointed out that its a mainly home grown problem - something you clearly were dying to criticise me for, but even accept below that I stated it was a home grown problem and the EU was only a part of it.

As for being a world power, again I said exactly that - but I also pointed out that we are a great power, and that even under the piss poor management of our current politicians we're still projected to remain a Great power with global capabilities right past 2050 - so we have a lot to offer economically, especially considering we're the worlds number one financial city.

Glad you did look at the other side too though - that other states in the EU have prospered (although it would be difficult to count either Germany or France, baring in mind the EEC's original intentions!)

The EEC has always had the same intentions as it has today, eventual political union.

It's only really blindly faithful Tory members who like to deluded themselves otherwise.

Totally and utterly agree with the school system, we seriously need to start teaching core subjects again, and show young people the VALUE of them, people need to stop thinking about "getting on with life", and need to start trying to be something special - and frankly, that isn't done without being good with maths and science (and obviously English). The school system here is shocking, although I know many would argue the "creative"/"hands on" subjects are essential (or whatever they are called).

It is all related to the abolition of the grammar schools in this country (which the useless Tories won't reverse) which gave poorer but clever kids the chance to do as good as somebody from a weathly background - that's why social mobility back then was so good for state school pupils getting into top universities, and why it's falling today in the post-grammar school era.

Until grammar schools are returned, the economy improved and silly subjects dropped - it's going to get worse and worse.

[AgnesIO]

I said I didn't blame the EU for it and pointed out that its a mainly home grown problem - something you clearly were dying to criticise me for, but even accept below that I stated it was a home grown problem and the EU was only a part of it.

As for being a world power, again I said exactly that - but I also pointed out that we are a great power, and that even under the piss poor management of our current politicians we're still projected to remain a Great power with global capabilities right past 2050 - so we have a lot to offer economically, especially considering we're the worlds number one financial city.



The EEC has always had the same intentions as it has today, eventual political union.

It's only really blindly faithful Tory members who like to deluded themselves otherwise.



It is all related to the abolition of the grammar schools in this country (which the useless Tories won't reverse) which gave poorer but clever kids the chance to do as good as somebody from a weathly background - that's why social mobility back then was so good for state school pupils getting into top universities, and why it's falling today in the post-grammar school era.

Until grammar schools are returned, the economy improved and silly subjects dropped - it's going to get worse and worse.

Your are wrong. I said I was glad you looked at the other side too - evidently stating I recognise you are not totally blaming the EU. However you clearly did say you partially blame the EU - despite you now claiming you didn't ("A lot of things are to blame, EU membership for example") - sorry if I misread that...

The EEC original intentions = Franco-German project. My point was the French and Germans always intended it to benefit them, so the fact they are both rising is unsurprising. Do you know what? I would be more than happy for a political union, a United States of Europe. I want what will benefit the UK - not our global power, but our quality of life. If that was improved and our defence was improved as a result of it I would be happy for it. You don't seem to understand that, national sovereignty is not the biggest issue for me - I want what will benefit the UK. If it turned out a USE would do more harm than good, I would not be in favour of it. However, the issue has been looked at in extreme focus (ie. not just one side), I would decide whether I wanted it.

Labour had 13 years to reverse the grammar school issue and didn't either. The economy being improved is not really related to the grammar school issue, and any argument saying it is is fundamentally flawed. The economy was very strong not so long ago. I would not dispute in the long term educated people will benefit the economy, just not in the short term!

[-:Undertaker:-]

Your are wrong. I said I was glad you looked at the other side too - evidently stating I recognise you are not totally blaming the EU. However you clearly did say you partially blame the EU - despite you now claiming you didn't ("A lot of things are to blame, EU membership for example") - sorry if I misread that...

Yes, the EU is partially a problem - but many are home grown problems. It's as simple as my original statement which you didn't read properly.

The EEC original intentions = Franco-German project. My point was the French and Germans always intended it to benefit them, so the fact they are both rising is unsurprising. Do you know what? I would be more than happy for a political union, a United States of Europe. I want what will benefit the UK - not our global power, but our quality of life. If that was improved and our defence was improved as a result of it I would be happy for it. You don't seem to understand that, national sovereignty is not the biggest issue for me - I want what will benefit the UK. If it turned out a USE would do more harm than good, I would not be in favour of it. However, the issue has been looked at in extreme focus (ie. not just one side), I would decide whether I wanted it.

So in other words, you have no regard for national sovereignty, no concept of how a nation works and not a care for democracy (as Europe doesn't have a demos and thus can never be a functioning democracy even if it wanted to be). How sad that somebody can fall so easily into the typical idealistic youth trap whereby they think that grand utopian projects like the European one can result in any good coming from it - it can't, just look at all other falsely created nation states (Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, the Soviet Union). All utopian projects tend to end in disaster, being a 'Conservative' I would have thought you'd understand that and be naturally sceptical of such ideas.

Before you 'consider' ideas like this, actually go back to basics and think about what a nation is. Is a nation simply random lines drawn on a map? or is a nation more than that? if you come to the second, more intelligent conclusion, you'll realise the concept of a workable United States of Europe is as realistic as a union between China and Japan.

Labour had 13 years to reverse the grammar school issue and didn't either. The economy being improved is not really related to the grammar school issue, and any argument saying it is is fundamentally flawed. The economy was very strong not so long ago. I would not dispute in the long term educated people will benefit the economy, just not in the short term!

Why would Labour bring back the grammar schools? Labour, being a party of the left, are naturally against education by selection and view education as a means of equality rather than of passing on knowledge. The so-called Conservative Party however is supposed to *be* conservative and do conservatives things, like supporting grammar school education - something it fails to do which is why it's membership is in collapse and its supporters are abandoning it in droves.

[AgnesIO]

Yes, the EU is partially a problem - but many are home grown problems. It's as simple as my original statement.



So in other words, you have no regard for national sovereignty, no concept of how a nation works and not a care for democracy (as Europe doesn't have a demos and thus can never be a functioning democracy even if it wanted to be). How sad that somebody can fall so easily into the typical idealistic youth trap whereby they think that grand utopian projects like the European one can result in any good coming from it - it can't, just look at all other falsely created nation states (Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, the Soviet Union). All utopian projects tend to end in disaster, being a 'Conservative' I would have thought you'd understand that and be naturally sceptical of such ideas.

Before you 'consider' ideas like this, actually go back to basics and think about what a nation is. Is a nation simply random lines drawn on a map? or is a nation more than that? if you come to the second, more intelligent conclusion, you'll realise the concept of a workable United States of Europe is as realistic as a union between China and Japan.



Why would Labour bring back the grammar schools? Labour, being a party of the left, are naturally against education by selection and view education as a means of equality rather than of passing on knowledge. The so-called Conservative Party however is supposed to *be* conservative and do conservatives things, like supporting grammar school education - something it fails to do which is why it's membership is in collapse and its supporters are abandoning it in droves.

I respect national sovereignty, but I will always have an opinion based on what is best for Britain. I certainly won't ever support a USE if there is not a seriously strong argument on why it would be worthwhile - however if it would help Britain, I would support it. The reason I am against leaving Europe is because I do not accept that it would help Britain. If I genuinely believed it would, I would vote to leave straight away.

Not exactly sure why you have put quotation marks on consider. I know a USE would be a huge project, but it CAN work - I can see why the Europhile's want it to work as well. I think the only issue with a USE as it has expanded too far (although Thatcher is partially to blame for that one, isn't she!) The Conservatives, by your usual estimations, are in favour of school by selection - but on a monetary value, rather than intelligence value. However they are evidently making moves to benefit those who are poorer but intelligent (11+ reforms, no resits - ie. stopping those who are not genuinely smart) - all arguably attempts.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I respect national sovereignty, but I will always have an opinion based on what is best for Britain. I certainly won't ever support a USE if there is not a seriously strong argument on why it would be worthwhile - however if it would help Britain, I would support it. The reason I am against leaving Europe is because I do not accept that it would help Britain. If I genuinely believed it would, I would vote to leave straight away.

How can dissolving Britain into a federal state possibly help it? is national sovereignty not important to you? in any case, even if dissolving Britain into a federal state did help is it not better to be able to make your own laws and controlling your own destiny rather than sacrificing that key power for any monetary or soft/hard power gain on the world stage?

Is your sense of identity so weak that you can simply drop being British tommorow depending on economic circumstances? bizzare.

Not exactly sure why you have put quotation marks on consider. I know a USE would be a huge project, but it CAN work - I can see why the Europhile's want it to work as well. I think the only issue with a USE as it has expanded too far (although Thatcher is partially to blame for that one, isn't she!)

How can it work when there exists no European people only peoples (there exists no demos)? I cannot name one democratic political system that has survived or remained stable that does not have a single or large majority demos. Can you?

The Conservatives, by your usual estimations, are in favour of school by selection - but on a monetary value, rather than intelligence value. However they are evidently making moves to benefit those who are poorer but intelligent (11+ reforms, no resits - ie. stopping those who are not genuinely smart) - all arguably attempts.

Indeed, which is why they are so useless and richly deserve to fall apart after they lose for the fifth time in a row come 2015.