Fmr Labour Home Secretary, David Blunkett, warns Roma immigration 'could cause riots'

[PinkSocks]

We're not technically full; Japan for example has a population TWICE the size of ours, and yet it is only about 50% larger in area. I am certainly not saying we could do with more people, but we certainly are not full. Also, your comparison of China is not really fair; they have a gigantic population but have you not seen the size of their area?

If I run a business and I can hire a Polish person who will work twice as hard as a British worker, I can tell you now who I will be employing.

Yes fine, but you cannot generalise to everybody because some British people could be the hardest workers you know and the Polish workers could be the slackers. It must frustrate you to some degree, knowing that you cant find work in your own country. British people have no connections in Poland, its hard for us the move and find work, however the Polish people have connections back in Poland and they are able to work in their own country.

[Mark]

What would actually happen if we refused them entering the country, or is that not possible? This topic really frustrates me, why do we bother allowing these countries into the EU and why has our country not done something about our immigration laws as well as our membership in the EU

[-:Undertaker:-]

Tell you what, the people who do leave from England to Bulgaria etc will make an absolute fortune if they are smart. I think it is about time the British stopped complaining and asking WHY British firms are employing Eastern Europeans. It isn't simply to do with pay; I've talked to farmers who say they WANT to employ British people, but they then question why on earth would they British people MORE money who will then put in very little effort. I got a job after an 8 month search; but now coming to the end of this job I've been told if I EVER want to go back I will have a job, if I EVER need a reference I can contact the manager directly; this is down to my work ethic - something too many British people lack, whilst they continually moan about the "bloody Eastern Europeans".

So before we opened the door to Poland in 2004, did the cabbages on the field rot because there was nobody picking them? Don't talk such utter rubbish. I would love you to stand in a job centre and start calling the British unemployed all lazy and ****less and we'd see what the reaction is - as the politicians think the same as you, maybe they ought to declare on national television just what they really think of British workers and youngsters.

Are you saying that the 1m unemployed British youngsters are all lazy? But you know, let's say they are all lazy - why import workers? the correct thing to do would be to tighten the benefits system and thereby FORCE British workers out into those jobs 'that nobody wants to do' - but as I said before, I don't think it's the case that nobody wants to do the work and it's more the fact that employers prefer employing foreign nationals because they know they can get foreign nationals to work off the books (avoid tax) and pay them far less.

Then your knowledge is, as often, well off the mark. Why on earth would you assume that the Romani all have Romanian citizenship? Those who live in Romania may well do just like they may have citizenship of whichever country they live in and gain legal rights in, but this article is explicitly stating "Roma" instead of Romanian, and the two are not the same. This is a move to open up Romania and Bulgaria and whatever your views on that it is misleading to say that this is a Romani issue, especially since the two countries have on average a 4% Romani population - it's like saying if Brits are allowed to emigrate to Korea the country will suddenly be full of black people

Did I say all Roma had Romanian citizenship? I made the point that when we talk of people in Romania and Bulgaria, the Roma make up a part of the Romanian population and are therefore classed as Romanian.

It's pretty simple stuff.

What would actually happen if we refused them entering the country, or is that not possible? This topic really frustrates me, why do we bother allowing these countries into the EU and why has our country not done something about our immigration laws as well as our membership in the EU

Because the politicians aren't effected by mass uncontrolled immigration. It isn't the areas they live in where you don't hear your own language being spoken anymore. It isn't the areas they live in that are flooded with criminals from abroad. It isn't the areas they live in where they have to wait twice as long for a council house behind people who came here yesterday. It isn't the areas which they live in where young Britons can't get jobs. They're totally totally out of touch and sheltered from what everybody else experiences - all they experience from mass immigration are cheap nannies and cheap waiters when they are in the capital and they couldn't give a damn about the effects on anybody else.

[Chippiewill]

As they said in 2004.

The future does not resemble the past.

Much of the population wants immigration limited hence why it ranks as one of the top voter concerns in the polling carried out. You wanting open borders with Romania and Bulgaria? your the one in the minority mate, not me.

I wasn't saying I was a majority in my opinion, just most people don't sit around in the ******** on immigration echo chamber all day.

So where did you get those figures from and what makes you confident these figures are correct this time given that last time 13,000 were predicted and 800,000 came? What is the timeframe for these figures? What are the crime statistics for the estimated number of people to come in?

I made them up.

Did you know that the former head of the Met Police plastic and cheque crime department for example has stated that 92% of ATM crimes in London are committed by Romanian nationals? Also as Fact Check says here, there have been 20,000 arrests of Romanian nationals.

Pretty discriminatory of you to pass judgement on all Romanians for the actions of a few.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The future does not resemble the past.

When it comes to our politicians, i'll judge them on their record rather than more of their promises thank you very much. The fact the government is refusing to release or give estimates says it all on how many they think will arrive from January 2014 onwards.

I wasn't saying I was a majority in my opinion, just most people don't sit around in the ******** on immigration echo chamber all day.

That's why the discussion is now being forced into the news because we're going to discuss whether or not it's a sensible idea to put our social services, police force, social cohesion and employment figures under more pressure and strain. The political class don't want to talk about it but the issue isn't going to go away.

The politicians are there to serve us, not ignore us.

I made them up.

So you don't have figures, the government doesn't have figures (or refuses to release them) yet here we are about to open the borders up to a total of 29 million very poor people?

Madness, utter madness.

Pretty discriminatory of you to pass judgement on all Romanians for the actions of a few.

Like every other country in the world? If you have a criminal record and you try to enter the United States then you will be denied entry, cry discrimination all you want - American citizens and their safety come first as should those of Britons.

[Kardan]

Yes fine, but you cannot generalise to everybody because some British people could be the hardest workers you know and the Polish workers could be the slackers. It must frustrate you to some degree, knowing that you cant find work in your own country. British people have no connections in Poland, its hard for us the move and find work, however the Polish people have connections back in Poland and they are able to work in their own country.

If so many British teenagers actually got qualifications then we wouldn't need to employ so many people with qualifications from other countries. The first method to deal with unemployment in my mind, is the education system.

You people might say "Oh, the Polish are taking all our jobs!", well, if people got qualifications, then maybe they'd stand a better chance. Employers will pick who is the best candidate, not because someone is British.

[-:Undertaker:-]

If so many British teenagers actually got qualifications then we wouldn't need to employ so many people with qualifications from other countries. The first method to deal with unemployment in my mind, is the education system.

You people might say "Oh, the Polish are taking all our jobs!", well, if people got qualifications, then maybe they'd stand a better chance. Employers will pick who is the best candidate, not because someone is British.

How are they doing that if they are only advertising the jobs in a foreign language in a foreign country?

[Kardan]

the Roma make up a part of the Romanian population and are therefore classed as Romanian.

So, am I right in saying then, that chavs are classed as British, mass murdering school shooters are classed as American and grumpy tennis players are Scottish?

I think that's the point being made. Romania and Romani people aren't equivalent.

- - - Updated - - -

How are they doing that if they are only advertising the jobs in a foreign language in a foreign country?

...Well, couldn't I say the same about places that advertise in English and only in the UK? Anyway, the vast majority of companies in the UK will advertise in English and advertise in the UK, assuming of course that the job description asks for that. If you are looking for a translator, or a chef specialising in Polish cuisine, then clearly things are likely to be different.

I must say, I haven't heard of any companies offering their jobs only for another country in a foreign language, so I would like to see some examples so I can read up on it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

So, am I right in saying then, that chavs are classed as British, mass murdering school shooters are classed as American and grumpy tennis players are Scottish?

I think that's the point being made. Romania and Romani people aren't equivalent.

Wow that's a pretty discriminatory remark towards the Roma people isn't it? Nevertheless, they both hold the same citizienship therefore when we're talking of the door opening to Romania we are talking about the door opening to Roma and the run-of-the-mill Romanians. Is that simple enough for everyone to understand?

But moving on from that diversion and I notice you haven't addressed my point. You claim it's a level playing field with uneducated or lazy British youngsters simply losing out to foreign workers, yet fail to understand that many of the companies are totally bypassing British youngster and are employing foreign workers directly because foreign workers are willing to work off the books for below the minimum wage and thus avoids tax.

Is this fair to British workers? it's not and you know it so don't pretend the playing field is level.

...Well, couldn't I say the same about places that advertise in English and only in the UK? Anyway, the vast majority of companies in the UK will advertise in English and advertise in the UK, assuming of course that the job description asks for that. If you are looking for a translator, or a chef specialising in Polish cuisine, then clearly things are likely to be different.

I must say, I haven't heard of any companies offering their jobs only for another country in a foreign language, so I would like to see some examples so I can read up on it.

You could say it but you'd look a fool as you seemingly don't understand that one of the prime aims of a country should be to get unemployment down (especially youth unemployment) so that in future we have a skilled home-grown workforce that is capable of running an economy and creating wealth. Importing workers is a sticking plaster over a wound.

But again, this whole debate is flawed to begin with - it's claimed that British youngsters don't want to do the jobs yet were the fruit and veg rotting in the fields of southern England pre-2004? no they were not. British people were working on those farms and picking the fruit and veg.

If Britons picked it back then, Britons (especially with a lack of jobs in 2013) are perfectly capable of doing so again.

[Chippiewill]

When it comes to our politicians, i'll judge them on their record rather than more of their promises thank you very much. The fact the government is refusing to release or give estimates says it all on how many they think will arrive from January 2014 onwards.

So if you're not going to trust estimates why should they bother publishing them.

So you don't have figures, the government doesn't have figures (or refuses to release them) yet here we are about to open the borders up to a total of 29 million very poor people?

29 million people, the vast majority of which have better places to go. If a 100,000 romanians want to come to the UK then it's fine by me, it's a long way to come though so I doubt it.

Like every other country in the world? If you have a criminal record and you try to enter the United States then you will be denied entry, cry discrimination all you want - American citizens and their safety come first as should those of Britons.

Not a fair analogy. A fair analogy would be that I can have a criminal record and still move from California to Nevada no problem.