Fmr Labour Home Secretary, David Blunkett, warns Roma immigration 'could cause riots'

[-:Undertaker:-]

Once again, please provide me with these many, many companies that are full of foreign workers.

There isn't a list of companies that I can grab off the internet, although it's well known that in the south of England the fields and packing factories are stacked full of Poles doing - as people as yourself constantly repeat - a good job.

Even the Government admit it (which takes a lot).

As for the 'Most Romanians are criminals' - there was 27,725 arrests of Romanians over 5 years. It's worth noting that Polish nationals were arrested more over that time (And of course Brits).

Where did I say that 'Most Romanians are criminals' - you appear to have quoted or are trying to portray that those are my exact words, can you tell me where I said that exact phrase please? Or did you just make it up as I suspect?

These arrests are simply for anything. If you are arrested, the number goes up. Out of those 27,725 arrests, 22,332 were not 'Murder, rape, other sexual offences, burglary, robbery and other violent offences'. So we only have just under a fifth of all arrests as serious crimes. Once again, these are the number of ARRESTS, that means you've been suspected of the crime, not charged. So the number of serious crimes *could* be a lot less than 5,393.

In 2009 (Now 4 years ago), 58,000 Romanians lived in the UK. So, if we assume that that number has rised (which I'm sure you'll agree with), and that the number of Romanians arrested (not charged) for serious crimes is at maximum 5,393 - I think we can say that is *NOT* a large majority of Romanians.

Le end.

So you think that 27,332 arrests out of 58,000 people over a 5 year period is not something to by concerned about? As for 'oh well its not serious crime' - whether it's murder or theft we still do not need it or want it in our country. Do you understand that concern?

Other notes, if you have spent any time in prison, which you would suspect at least some of these 'Romanian criminals' to have done, your application into the UK is refused until a significant number of years has passed. It's not as if anyone can stroll right in.

That's because, as I understand it, the open borders have not yet come into effect. As I understand, when the borders are opened to Romania and Bulgaria then any EU citizen from those two countries will have as much right to come into this country as you and I do.

And that's one of the reasons why i'm arguing here against opening the borders.

[FlyingJesus]

The Roma move about regardless of the law those who don't stay put because they have it good wherever they've found themselves, and the poorest people in Romania are actually remote farmers in small villages. 1/5 of the population live below the poverty line, so it's literally impossible for Roma people to be any sort of majority in that sense since even if every single one of them were totally impoverished they'd make up less than 1/5 of the total number struggling to feed. I'm not going to argue your ideas on immigration control and such because I know where you stand on that already, I just don't like seeing opinions swayed by bad reporting

[Kardan]

There isn't a list of companies that I can grab off the internet, although it's well known that in the south of England the fields and packing factories are stacked full of Poles doing - as people as yourself constantly repeat - a good job.

Even the Government admit it (which takes a lot).



Where did I say that 'Most Romanians are criminals' - you appear to have quoted or are trying to portray that those are my exact words, can you tell me where I said that exact phrase please? Or did you just make it up as I suspect?



So you think that 27,332 arrests out of 58,000 people over a 5 year period is not something to by concerned about? As for 'oh well its not serious crime' - whether it's murder or theft we still do not need it or want it in our country. Do you understand that concern?



That's because, as I understand it, the open borders have not yet come into effect. As I understand, when the borders are opened to Romania and Bulgaria then any EU citizen from those two countries will have as much right to come into this country as you and I do.

And that's one of the reasons why i'm arguing here against opening the borders.

You said 'A large majority' and I'm sure you know what majority means.

Secondly, I managed to get myself some 2011 Census data, which is a better picture (but still not perfect) representation of data from 2008-2012. The number of Romanians is actually 102,000. Once again, it's worth noting that these are the number of arrests, not the number of individual people arrested. One person can be arrested multiple times. And yes, I understand that concern, but heck, I'm sure there's a lot more Brits getting arrested? You make it sound like Romanians are the only people to be arrested. It's not as if their numbers are crazily higher than any other nationality.

[FlyingJesus]

It's ok when British people get arrested because they do it while saluting the Queen

[-:Undertaker:-]

You said 'A large majority' and I'm sure you know what majority means.

So I didn't say that most Romanians are criminals, you just made that up like a liar.

Find the exact (and full quote) you are talking about and show me where it is.

Secondly, I managed to get myself some 2011 Census data, which is a better picture (but still not perfect) representation of data from 2008-2012. The number of Romanians is actually 102,000. Once again, it's worth noting that these are the number of arrests, not the number of individual people arrested. One person can be arrested multiple times. And yes, I understand that concern, but heck, I'm sure there's a lot more Brits getting arrested? You make it sound like Romanians are the only people to be arrested. It's not as if their numbers are crazily higher than any other nationality.

Oh here we go, I knew you'd link it back to the British people. Well firstly - even if British people were being arrested on that same scale and proportion (of which they are not) I would still make the common sense argument that we do not need even more criminals from Romania to add to the problem.

Now is that a sane and logical position or do you have a problem with it?

It's ok when British people get arrested because they do it while saluting the Queen

Then the same question you Tom as I put to Kardan - given that we have criminal problems of our own, do we need to be having run-ins with Romanian criminals on top of our home grown criminal class?

Yes or no.

[Kardan]

So I didn't say that most Romanians are criminals, you just made that up like a liar.

Find the exact (and full quote) you are talking about and show me where it is.



Oh here we go, I knew you'd link it back to the British people. Well firstly - even if British people were being arrested on that same scale and proportion (of which they are not) I would still make the common sense argument that we do not need even more criminals from Romania to add to the problem.

Now is that a sane and logical position or do you have a problem with it?



Then the same question you Tom as I put to Kardan - given that we have criminal problems of our own, do we need to be having run-ins with Romanian criminals on top of our home grown criminal class?

Yes or no.

No, you said 'A vast majority [of Romanians] could be criminals' (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthrea...78#post8042878). As I said, we both know the meaning of majority, so what you said is wrong.

And quite clearly we don't need more criminals... But could you not say that about every single country on this planet?

Anyways, I'm off to bed now. I'll let you keep losing sleep over the changes coming in the new year.

[-:Undertaker:-]

No, you said 'A vast majority [of Romanians] could be criminals' (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthrea...78#post8042878). As I said, we both know the meaning of majority, so what you said is wrong.

Could. It's a hypothetical dear.

Although on the ATM figures it's already a vast majority at 92% Romanian.

And quite clearly we don't need more criminals... But could you not say that about every single country on this planet?

Yes so don't let them in if they have a criminal record.

Duh?

Anyways, I'm off to bed now. I'll let you keep losing sleep over the changes coming in the new year.

If that's your attitude then I really hope you get a taste of what other people in this country are going to have to go through because of your pure arrogance. And i'm talking about crime.

If it's good enough for other people in this country to experience it then it's good enough for you. Maybe being held up at the ATM or having your details stolen will straighten out that head of yours.

[AgnesIO]

How are they doing that if they are only advertising the jobs in a foreign language in a foreign country?

Can you please not avoid my query, in providing some sort of concrete evidence that firms are ONLY advertising jobs abroad in a foreign language? I am expecting an employer offering thousands of jobs, I mean if we are to believe this statement you make it must surely be rather significant?

It's fine by you that 100,000 people (a quarter the size of Liverpool) can suddenly arrive in our country and claim from the welfare, benefits system and be treated on the NHS? it's fine by you that 100,000 people can come in despite the fact we may not be in need of 95% of their skills? it's fine by you that areas of our country will be completely changed and that people will feel alienated in their own areas? it's fine by you that 100,000 people may come into this country of which a vast majority could be criminals?

Oh, of course, 100,000 COULD be criminals. In the same way that if I invite 80,000 British people to Wembley in London using a totally random sample, I'm sure potentially every single person selected COULD be a criminal. Where are your statistics that suggest the vast majority of Romanians coming to Britain are criminals?

Furthermore, how many times do I need to state that Eastern European immigrants pay more into the British economy than they take out. Is this really a difficult concept to grasp?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Can you please not avoid my query, in providing some sort of concrete evidence that firms are ONLY advertising jobs abroad in a foreign language? I am expecting an employer offering thousands of jobs, I mean if we are to believe this statement you make it must surely be rather significant?

Since when could I read Polish?

Oh, of course, 100,000 COULD be criminals. In the same way that if I invite 80,000 British people to Wembley in London using a totally random sample, I'm sure potentially every single person selected COULD be a criminal. Where are your statistics that suggest the vast majority of Romanians coming to Britain are criminals?

Saying 'vast majority' there was wrong of me even though it was a hypothetical, probably thought I was still talking about ATM statistics. I added later on however that whether it's a vast majority, half-half, or even a small minority the borders should still be controlled to stop ANY criminals gaining entry.

Do you agree with that, yes or no?

Furthermore, how many times do I need to state that Eastern European immigrants pay more into the British economy than they take out. Is this really a difficult concept to grasp?

Sorry, where have I denied this? Quote me saying otherwise.

My main concern with uncontrolled immigation is actually social cohesion if you must know.

[FlyingJesus]

I don't believe I ever said we should import criminals, there are measures against doing that already