Fmr Labour Home Secretary, David Blunkett, warns Roma immigration 'could cause riots'

[-:Undertaker:-]

I don't believe I ever said we should import criminals, there are measures against doing that already

I don't recall saying you did say that, I asked a question.

Under EU rules however with open borders from the impression I have, somebody with a criminal record can enter the United Kingdom freely. So whilst these measures may be in place - although enforced poorly given Romanian crime stats - we'll lose even those thin protections this coming January.

[AgnesIO]

Since when could I read Polish?

I never said you could, although I'm sure there will be simply dozens of news articles referring to the news that jobs are ONLY being advertised in Polish. And if there aren't? I highly doubt the legitimacy of your grand claims. I think you may have confused yourself with jobs being advertised abroad AND in Britain, rather than what you have claimed in this very thread that jobs are ONLY being advertised abroad.

Saying 'vast majority' there was wrong of me even though it was a hypothetical, probably thought I was still talking about ATM statistics. I added later on however that whether it's a vast majority, half-half, or even a small minority the borders should still be controlled to stop ANY criminals gaining entry.

Do you agree with that, yes or no?

Of course I don't want criminals to gain entry, but if you are saying we shouldn't do anything in case of a tiny minority then I'd suggest you are rather loopy. Of course, I don't think you believe that at all.

Sorry, where have I denied this? Quote me saying otherwise.

My main concern with uncontrolled immigation is actually social cohesion if you must know.

"It's fine by you that 100,000 people (a quarter the size of Liverpool) can suddenly arrive in our country and claim from the welfare, benefits system and be treated on the NHS? "

As long as they are paying in more than they are taking out, I fail to see what the issue with immigrants claiming benefits is? I don't understand what could possibly be wrong here - I mean if someone said to me "Can you give me £10, but in the end I'll give you £12 back", I would accept that offer. Yet the way you have written it (scaremongering again, are we?), it would suggest that they are taking taking and taking, yet giving nothing back?

[-:Undertaker:-]

I never said you could, although I'm sure there will be simply dozens of news articles referring to the news that jobs are ONLY being advertised in Polish. And if there aren't? I highly doubt the legitimacy of your grand claims. I think you may have confused yourself with jobs being advertised abroad AND in Britain, rather than what you have claimed in this very thread that jobs are ONLY being advertised abroad.

No dear, no no no you have it completely wrong. I cannot provide links because I cannot read Poland, however I can provide links (as I did earlier with the video for example) where Government ministers and managers of those companies themselves are telling you that companies are asking for the jobs to be advertised only in Eastern Europe.

Not only were companies doing it, the Department for Work and Pensions was also at it -

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013...n_2630397.html

The Department of Work and Pensions has taken down a number of job vacancies on the government website after it emerged they were written entirely in Polish.

The labouring roles which were advertised in London list duties which translate as "working on roofs, scraping and demolition of buildings."

At the end of one of the adverts it says: "If you do not talk in Polish, please send an email, do not call," although as the advert is in Polish it is unclear how a non-Polish speaker would be able to do this.

The DWP told the Huffington Post UK jobs are only supposed to be posted in English or Welsh, and this is why the Polish adverts had been taken down.

That was on a bloody GOVERNMENT website. Wake up, now there's a good chap.

Of course I don't want criminals to gain entry, but if you are saying we shouldn't do anything in case of a tiny minority then I'd suggest you are rather loopy. Of course, I don't think you believe that at all.

So then you'll agree with me that having open borders with Romania and Bulgaria next year is stupid, irresponsible and wrong. Yes?

As long as they are paying in more than they are taking out, I fail to see what the issue with immigrants claiming benefits is? I don't understand what could possibly be wrong here - I mean if someone said to me "Can you give me £10, but in the end I'll give you £12 back", I would accept that offer. Yet the way you have written it (scaremongering again, are we?), it would suggest that they are taking taking and taking, yet giving nothing back?

Because the issue isn't solely economics, the issue is mainly the sheer numbers coming in and literally swamping entire areas - it alienates people when they don't hear English being spoken around them, crime is shooting up in their area and that's when you have people turning to extreme groups like the BNP and EDL because their concerns are being totally ignored by people like you who only care about contributing to the national GDP.

As for the claims that it's all so good for the economy, i'm highly sceptical - I would like to know if these figures are compiled by including the costs of schools having to teach in multiple languages, the costs of crime, NSH bills and so on. And besides, of course more people = more GDP. What you should be looking at is GDP Per Capita rather than GDP as a whole.

China has a higher population than us and thus has a higher GDP overall, yet the people of China are relatively very poor compared to the people here. If you add more and more people of course your GDP will increase (which translates as 'an extra £6bn' or whatever) but that doesn't mean we are all getting wealthier, indeed it can mean the opposite.

[Grig]

Will comment more extensively later. But, the interesting point here is why hasn't the government learned from past immigration disasters with other Eastern European countries. Attract foreign talent, sure, and that's a positive for any country. But what seems to keep happening is the complete antonym of talent with the government not learning from history. This is going to be an issue that generations later will regret and some community are already feeling the full brunt of these policies already. There is little sane justification for this policy to go through and it will just reflect on the government being a lame duck, not caring for its nationals.

In terms of China and GDP, the country will eventually have a collapse and then it'll be reeling the effects of its wealth. Many backroom dealings going on in that country, which essentially has a housing bubble growing worse than the US' in the 2008 collapse. GDP also correlates to economic growth in the country. Quality of life is of course much better in Britain, and if this continues, it will always be a strong marker for the long term.

[Kardan]

Could. It's a hypothetical dear.

Although on the ATM figures it's already a vast majority at 92% Romanian.



Yes so don't let them in if they have a criminal record.

Duh?



If that's your attitude then I really hope you get a taste of what other people in this country are going to have to go through because of your pure arrogance. And i'm talking about crime.

If it's good enough for other people in this country to experience it then it's good enough for you. Maybe being held up at the ATM or having your details stolen will straighten out that head of yours.

The vast point is, no matter what I think of immigration (It's worth noting that I haven't said I'm for, or happy with the changes that will be happening in the new year, I'm just opposing certain points you keep insisting on using ), that it will stay the same. If I express a massive hatred, these people will still get let in - so really, there's nothing I can do, and there's not much point losing sleep over it.

And if we're talking hypotheticals, I guess it's not wrong for me to say that:

A vast majority of gay people could have HIV. A vast majority of Christian bishops could be paedophiles. A vast majority of Habbox Forum management could be billionaires. Etc. Etc. Do hypotheticals really have a place in debates? I'd leave them out, it just leads to confusion really

[-:Undertaker:-]

The vast point is, no matter what I think of immigration (It's worth noting that I haven't said I'm for, or happy with the changes that will be happening in the new year, I'm just opposing certain points you keep insisting on using ), that it will stay the same. If I express a massive hatred, these people will still get let in - so really, there's nothing I can do, and there's not much point losing sleep over it.

And if we're talking hypotheticals, I guess it's not wrong for me to say that:

A vast majority of gay people could have HIV. A vast majority of Christian bishops could be paedophiles. A vast majority of Habbox Forum management could be billionaires. Etc. Etc. Do hypotheticals really have a place in debates? I'd leave them out, it just leads to confusion really

But this it the problem with this debate. Whenever this debate gets brought up people like yourself confuse a dislike of mass uncontrolled immigration with a dislike or hatred of immigrants.

I have not once blamed the immigrants for wanting to come here - the only people I blame and will continue to blame are the politicians for allowing it to happen in the first place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxMtT-5svsk - that's the success story I want more of.

[Kardan]

But this it the problem with this debate. Whenever this debate gets brought up people like yourself confuse a dislike of mass uncontrolled immigration with a dislike or hatred of immigrants.

I have not once blamed the immigrants for wanting to come here - the only people I blame and will continue to blame are the politicians for allowing it to happen in the first place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxMtT-5svsk - that's the success story I want more of.

I did mean a hatred of the system in general rather than the immigrants. I looked up whether you can enter the country with a criminal record, and sadly, you're right. If you're in a country outside the EU, you will be refused if you've gone to prison. If you're in the EU, you can have anything on your criminal record and walk right in. That's just plain wrong. The system has its flaws.

[AgnesIO]

No dear, no no no you have it completely wrong. I cannot provide links because I cannot read Poland, however I can provide links (as I did earlier with the video for example) where Government ministers and managers of those companies themselves are telling you that companies are asking for the jobs to be advertised only in Eastern Europe.

Not only were companies doing it, the Department for Work and Pensions was also at it -

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013...n_2630397.html



That was on a bloody GOVERNMENT website. Wake up, now there's a good chap.

Please stop referring to people as "dear", it is horribly patronising. That article does NOT state the DWP are advertising for their jobs in only Polish. It states that the Direct Gov website (essentially this section is a job search tool) contained advertisements in Polish for labourers. Whilst they shouldn't have been advertised in the first place, all I got from that article is that jobs were put up in Polish, and then removed when they are found out.

Apple allowed HMV to have an app selling music on their App Store (against their own terms) - they then removed the app when they found out. Exactly what has happened here.

So then you'll agree with me that having open borders with Romania and Bulgaria next year is stupid, irresponsible and wrong. Yes?

We can have measures preventing criminals, if you have a criminal record and try to go to the USA they will not let you in. Don't tell me the EU will get angry, they might fine you the odd million - but this is absolutely irrelevant. Other countries break EU rules all the time.

Because the issue isn't solely economics, the issue is mainly the sheer numbers coming in and literally swamping entire areas - it alienates people when they don't hear English being spoken around them, crime is shooting up in their area and that's when you have people turning to extreme groups like the BNP and EDL because their concerns are being totally ignored by people like you who only care about contributing to the national GDP.

As for the claims that it's all so good for the economy, i'm highly sceptical - I would like to know if these figures are compiled by including the costs of schools having to teach in multiple languages, the costs of crime, NSH bills and so on. And besides, of course more people = more GDP. What you should be looking at is GDP Per Capita rather than GDP as a whole.

Yeah, people could also turn to parties that have lunatics like Nigel Farage, and - until recently - Godfrey Bloom :rolleyes:

This is a really recent article, although this one does sadly does not split it up into parts of Europe; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24813467

However, from memory the last study was also UCL.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Please stop referring to people as "dear", it is horribly patronising. That article does NOT state the DWP are advertising for their jobs in only Polish. It states that the Direct Gov website (essentially this section is a job search tool) contained advertisements in Polish for labourers. Whilst they shouldn't have been advertised in the first place, all I got from that article is that jobs were put up in Polish, and then removed when they are found out.

Head in the sand, I've just provided evidence from a government website of all things and the headline clearly states that the jobs were only being advertised in Polish - so you didn't get much from the article as you clearly weren't paying any attention to what it says.

We can have measures preventing criminals, if you have a criminal record and try to go to the USA they will not let you in. Don't tell me the EU will get angry, they might fine you the odd million - but this is absolutely irrelevant. Other countries break EU rules all the time.

Kardan has just conceded my point above that when the borders open with Romania and Bulgaria, under EU rules we will not have the power any longer to stop those with criminal records entering this country.

So with that fact now established, do you or do you not agree with me that it is foolish and a betrayal of the British people to open the borders up to Romania and Bulgaria in January 2014?

Yeah, people could also turn to parties that have lunatics like Nigel Farage, and - until recently - Godfrey Bloom :rolleyes:

Those 'lunatics' were the same lunatics who stood alone for most of the past decade warning that Britain shouldn't join the Euro (at a time when Richard Branson and Co were saying our economy would suffer if we did not) and that it would end in tears. Those 'lunatics' were the only ones who warned in 2004 that opening the doors to Poland would result in a flood of immigrants into this country. Those 'lunatics' were the same people who warned that the European Commission would use the Euro crisis as a catalyst to take control of the City of London/financial services and national governments (which was proven right with Greece, Italy and Belgium). Those 'lunatics' were the same two who warned that the European Union would ignore the results of national referendums and would continue on with their project regardless of what the public thought (as proven with the French, Dutch and Irish referendums).

If Farage is a lunatic, then what does that make everybody else who said the complete opposite? For a loon, he certainly has a good track record of being right.

This is a really recent article, although this one does sadly does not split it up into parts of Europe; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24813467

However, from memory the last study was also UCL.

I explained the point about GDP earlier - of course with more people GDP is higher than having less people in your country. I have also said in this debate that the economics of it aren't actually my main concern, my main concern over mass immigration is multiculturalism and the rise of cultural ghettos across this country.