Scotland independence white paper published & future of the Union Flag confirmed

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-...ge-union-flag/

Union Flag: What happens if Scotland wins independence?

The debate over Scottish independence has brought the future of the Union Flag into focus.

The Union Flag, which was adopted in 1801, combines the crosses of England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland but there are doubts over the long term future of the symbol if Scotland gains independence next September.

There are currently no plans to change the Union Flag if Scotland becomes independent Credit: Press Association Images/Joe Morgan

However, the College of Arms has told ITV News that there are no plans to change the Union Flag if Scotland becomes an independent state.

The authority for official flags for the UK and the Commonwealth said the Queen would remain the head of state in an independent Scotland, and therefore the Union Flag would not be affected.

The Scottish Government published its White Paper on independence this morning, outlining the overriding reasons why Scotland should leave the United Kingdom and become a separate state.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ependence.html

Alex Salmond vows to keep BBC and pound in blueprint for independence

Alex Salmond vows to keep pound and create a fairer, more prosperous and more democratic Scotland at launch of independence white paper

Alex Salmond has been pilloried after unveiling a blueprint for Scottish independence that assumes the English would continue to share the UK’s ‘crown jewels’ including the pound and BBC programmes.

The First Minister’s long-awaited White Paper on independence promised Scotland “will” retain sterling and would seek to join the EU on the same terms as the UK, including a euro opt-out and a share of Baroness Thatcher’s rebate.

A separate Scotland would assume a much lower share of the UK’s national debt than previously thought, spend more on childcare and a new Scottish Broadcasting Service would show the BBC’s output, the document said.

But Mr Salmond refused to acknowledge that the English, Welsh and Northern Irish may not go along with his “common sense” proposals if there is a ‘yes’ vote in September’s referendum.

The 650-page document contained no ‘Plan B’ for a separate Scotland’s currency despite a series of political figures led by George Osborne, the Chancellor, warning that a deal to share sterling was unlikely.

Alistair Darling, the former Chancellor and leader of the pro-UK Better Together campaign, said the Scottish Government had produced a “wish list of political promises” with few details or costings.

The White Paper did not attempt to price the setting up of a new nation state or address a report by the impartial Institute for Fiscal Studies last week, which said an extra £6 billion of spending cuts or tax rises would have to be found.

Keeping sterling is vital to Mr Salmond’s hopes of winning the referendum, with the White Paper promising Scots that their pensions and mortgages would be unaffected by independence.

Unveiling the document at a press conference in Glasgow, the First Minister was asked why the blueprint’s proposals were presented as a fait accompli when they relied on the consent of the remainder of the UK and other countries.

“We put forward a common sense position which is in the best interests of the people of Scotland and the people of the rest of the United Kingdom,” he said.

He suggested a ‘yes’ vote next year would mean that Westminster would also have to agree to the contents of the White Paper, adding that politicians have to acknowledge the “power” of a democratic mandate.

But he was challenged that he was in no position to judge the “best interests” of people south of the Border. Carwyn Jones, the Welsh First Minister, last week said he was opposed to a currency union and demanded a veto.

Mr Salmond attacked his Welsh counterpart and suggested the attitudes of UK politicians would change once the dust had settled following a ‘yes’ vote.

Alex Salmond launched his blueprint for the break-up of Britain by promising voters they would be £600 better off in an independent Scotland in which the tax system would be fairer and childcare would be improved.

His long list of policy pledges, which would depend on the SNP being elected as the first government in a separate Scotland, includes free childcare for all pre-school children, no rise in general taxation, an end to the Coalition’s unpopular “bedroom tax” and scrapping the married couples allowance.

The long-awaited white paper on independence also pledged to keep the pound - offering no Plan B on currency - promised to remove Trident nuclear weapons from the Clyde by 2020 and said the minimum wage would rise alongside the cost of living, while basic rate tax allowances and tax credits would rise in line with inflation.

In a surprisingly low key launch event at the Glasgow Science Centre, Mr Salmond claimed the 670-page document promised a "revolution" in social policy, with childcare at its heart.

He added: "Our vision is of an independent Scotland regaining its place as an equal member of the family of nations. However, we do not seek independence as an end in itself, but rather as a means to changing Scotland for the better.

"We know we have the people, the skills and resources to make Scotland a more successful country. What we need now are the economic tools and powers to build a more competitive, dynamic economy and create more jobs.”

Rather glad we've had a hint of confirmation that in the event of a Scottish yes vote, the Union flag will be retained in it's present form. That is the flag of the country I was born a subject of, and it'll remain my flag until I die. I have argued before on these boards that in the event of Scottish independence, I do hope nothing is chaged - there's been rumours of the flag changing and the name of the country changing from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland but I don't see why we can't retain the present name as it still makes geographical and cultural sense.

As for Salmond wanting the Pound Sterling - as much as I don't want Scotland to leave, if they do then there should be no currency deals with an independent Scotland under any circumstances. Currency unions without political and economic union do not work (see the Euro) and would lead to a disaster in time, especially given the spending habits of Salmond.

Nuclear weapons, i'd do what has already been threatened - simply declare the nuclear bases in Scotland 'British enclaves' (like we have done in Malta) and retain them under UK sovereignty. It's not the most diplomatic thing to do but quite honestly if that assures the continuation of our nuclear defence system then there's no question that is what we should do.

So what are your thoughts on the flag news and the Scottish white paper that's been published?

[Inseriousity.]

I find it amusing how the parallels to leaving the EU's argument is the same as scottish independence: nothing will change, things will largely stay the same but we'll get more control and do things better. SNP have been taking tips from UKIP and euroskeptics!

Trouble with Scotland's independence is that it seems a bit ham-fisted to say you want to be independent and then retain everything about the old system you're supposed to be against. It's a much bigger step than UK leaving the EU and they do seem to be relying too heavily on the goodwill of negotiators. as for whether they should be able to keep the pound, I think it'd be nice for them to keep the pound to have that consistency even if there is an invisible border and you're technically in a foreign country.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I find it amusing how the parallels to leaving the EU's argument is the same as scottish independence: nothing will change, things will largely stay the same but we'll get more control and do things better. SNP have been taking tips from UKIP and euroskeptics!

I have said a few times that I think the arguments being put forward by the pro-Union side are actually shameful and full of mistruths - the Scots are being fed a diet of lies concerning the economic future of Scotland by Alistair Darling and Co where they are told that Scotland will be an economic backwater if it leaves the UK - that's simply not true and i'm as pro-Union as you can get. Scotland can be a successful independent country if it wishes to be just as Great Britain can be a successful and prosperous country outside of the EU like Switzerland and Norway are.

I argue for the Union being retained on the basis that we are culturally similar enough to be a single nation - which is the basis of a nation state. And that's the difference between the EU argument and the Scottish independence argument.

Salmond's argument about more control is flawed anyway - most of our laws and regulations are handed down from Brussels to Westminster where Whitehall either applies them all over the United Kingdom or hands (again) down to Local counties and the Scottish/Welsh and Northern Irish assemblies. You say below that Scotland leaving the UK is a much bigger deal than the UK leaving the EU but that's simply not the case.

Trouble with Scotland's independence is that it seems a bit ham-fisted to say you want to be independent and then retain everything about the old system you're supposed to be against. It's a much bigger step than UK leaving the EU and they do seem to be relying too heavily on the goodwill of negotiators. as for whether they should be able to keep the pound, I think it'd be nice for them to keep the pound to have that consistency even if there is an invisible border and you're technically in a foreign country.

But where is the economic sense in sharing the currency - you cannot have a working and stable currency zone without economic and political union (which is exactly the thing that Salmond wants to break up) otherwise you end up with a situtation like the Euro. Is that what we want, the Pound becoming a version of the disasterous Euro?

[AgnesIO]

I love how they say they want to leave, but keep their favourite bits. Either leave or don't.