Immigration: Should the borders be opened on Jan 1st 2014 to Romania and Bulgaria?

[lRhyss]

They'll just take our jobs and ruin the economy more. Idec what people say, my view.

[Kardan]

They'll just take our jobs and ruin the economy more. Idec what people say, my view.

Please explain your views on how immigrants ruin the economy.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Please explain your views on how immigrants ruin the economy.

By depressing wages for the lowest paid in our society thus making it more financially sensible for them to just claim benefits rather than work.

Mass immigration: good for the wealthy with cheap nannies and waiters + corporations for cheap labour, bad for low-paid workers.

[Kardan]

By depressing wages for the lowest paid in our society thus making it more financially sensible for them to just claim benefits rather than work.

Mass immigration: good for the wealthy with cheap nannies and waiters + corporations for cheap labour, bad for low-paid workers.

Didn't realise I quoted you

[-:Undertaker:-]

Didn't realise I quoted you

But you and others keep asking the same questions and keep being given the same answers, yet seemingly still want the borders with Romania and Bulgaria opened and immigration continued at the same rates - suggesting to me that you actually acknowledge those affects but don't care.

If you along with others came out and said you weren't in favour of open borders like we have now then at least we'd know where you stand - then the details could be debated over and picked over. But you won't clarify where you stand on the issue.

I and others say very clearly where we stand - that the borders shouldn't be left open like they are now. Agree or disagree that's at least a solid answer being given for a variety of reasons. Where do you stand on it?

[The Don]

The lowest they can legally work for is the minimum wage, which british people can work for if they want? It's not like they can legally work for ridiculously low sums which would give them an advantage so isn't that really a moot point? If people see it more appealing to claim benefits than work, that's a problem with the benefits system and that mentality, not immigration.

By depressing wages for the lowest paid in our society thus making it more financially sensible for them to just claim benefits rather than work.

Mass immigration: good for the wealthy with cheap nannies and waiters + corporations for cheap labour, bad for low-paid workers.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The lowest they can legally work for is the minimum wage, which british people can work for if they want? It's not like they can legally work for ridiculously low sums which would give them an advantage so isn't that really a moot point? If people see it more appealing to claim benefits than work, that's a problem with the benefits system and that mentality, not immigration.

Well firstly often companies with these migrants will hire migrant workers exactly because they are willing, unlike their British counterparts, to ignore the minimum wage and work 'off the books' - which saves the company a lot of money. This has been the case for illegal immigrants too if you watch UK Border Force where they've busted companies for employing hoardes of illegal immigrants who will work for under the minimum wage.

At the same time, how can British people be expected to work on the minimum wage and compete with Polish and other Eastern European workers? As stated before, many of these workers are single men who sleep rough/many to a house and send all of their money back home - they do not have mortgages to pay, cars to fuel, families to feed or any of the obligations that British people struggle to pay with. Not only that, but £5 an hour buys you a lot more in Poland than it does in Britain hence why the Poles are willing to work for that wage and British people are not.

If immigration was controlled, especially in this area, then wage rates would have risen in line with inflation over the past decade which would have made the work more appealing and actually worth doing to Britons. It hasn't because the wage rates have been aritificially depressed by importing hundreds of thousands of migrants to fill the jobs for pittance. The answer isn't a rise in the minimum wage either (which i'm against anyway) - the answer it to allow the market to correct itself among the domestic market instead of distorting it with this sneaky way of depressing wages for the lowest paid in this country.

It's not on and even Labour now realise it - the party which depends on the votes of the lowest paid.

[Kardan]

But you and others keep asking the same questions and keep being given the same answers, yet seemingly still want the borders with Romania and Bulgaria opened and immigration continued at the same rates - suggesting to me that you actually acknowledge those affects but don't care.

If you along with others came out and said you weren't in favour of open borders like we have now then at least we'd know where you stand - then the details could be debated over and picked over. But you won't clarify where you stand on the issue.

I and others say very clearly where we stand - that the borders shouldn't be left open like they are now. Agree or disagree that's at least a solid answer being given for a variety of reasons. Where do you stand on it?

You already know where I stand, that the borders should be opened for Romanians and Bulgarians. What I don't agree with is that people of the EU may enter the country without their criminal record being taken into consideration. So the borders should be open, but tougher restrictions should be implemented. I disagree with a full on closure of borders.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You already know where I stand, that the borders should be opened for Romanians and Bulgarians. What I don't agree with is that people of the EU may enter the country without their criminal record being taken into consideration. So the borders should be open, but tougher restrictions should be implemented. I disagree with a full on closure of borders.

But nobody is arguing to 'close the borders' - all we're arguing for is that workers should only be allowed into this country with the handing out of work visas (like the rest of the world) so that we only get workers who we need rather than workers who are coming in and taking the jobs of the lowest paid. If a reasonable job cannot be filled by the domestic workers then fine, let workers apply from other countries - nobody has a problem with that. As for the criminal part, you don't grasp EU Law and Freedom of Movement then - under EU Law and this entire system, we are unable to stop those with a criminal record coming in as they have the same rights as you and I do in entering this country as we're EU nationals.

And as I say time and time again, that's why with all of this it's in or out of the EU. Either we control our borders (out) or we don't (in).

So the questions are....

- Why be against a work visa/permit & settlement system like most other countries have?
- Do you agree we should leave the EU to reclaim those powers over who can or cannot enter this country?

[Reality]

So the questions are....

- Why be against a work visa/permit & settlement system like most other countries have?
- Do you agree we should leave the EU to reclaim those powers over who can or cannot enter this country?

I think the point made about work visa/permit has actually changed my opinion on this.
The second point made about should we leave the EU.
I think if we left the EU we would be a strong country at first, then we would start to struggle as some of our importers may decide to stop delivering it to the UK.

I don't know but who know if this is going to be a good idea or not... we can find out in a month or so after the boarders open in 2 days!