Wednesday 26th March: Clegg v Farage TV Debate (Round One)

[The Don]

Quite shocked Parliament and Clegg think only 7% of UK laws are from the EU. Even the EU states it's around the 75%

Could you link me to that please?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Could you link me to that please?

I gave the sources as did Farage in the debate. Ryan also just named legislation.

If you want a visual then simply watch this from 5:00 in -

[The Don]

I gave the sources as did Farage in the debate. Ryan also just named legislation.

If you want a visual then simply watch this from 5:00 in -

Could you directly link me to them as I don't recall seeing it. Thanks.

[GommeInc]

Could you link me to that please?

The Drafts or the statement? Some reporter said it on the BBC so no idea, and a few people tweeted it during the debates. I'd be interested to know too as some articles are stating 8-10% instead of 75% or even the low number of 7%, Besides, what is meant by implementation varies - we have a habit of not fully implementing regulations and directives. The UTCCR is one example I can think of so it's up for debate what implementation means in this context - something that was lacking in this debate :/

The Drafts/Bills can be found here:
http://www.parliament.uk/business/bi...n/draft-bills/

[The Don]

The Drafts or the statement? Some reporter said it on the BBC so no idea, and a few people tweeted it during the debates. I'd be interested to know too as some articles are stating 8-10% instead of 75% or even the low number of 7%, Besides, what is meant by implementation varies - we have a habit of not fully implementing regulations and directives. The UTCCR is one example I can think of so it's up for debate what implementation means in this context - something that was lacking in this debate :/

The Drafts/Bills can be found here:
http://www.parliament.uk/business/bi...n/draft-bills/

The statement. So did the EU itself (a representative) say that 75% of laws and legislation come from it, like you said, or not? Because I'm tempted to listen to what parliament says, even more so since there's no backing for this 75% number people keep mentioning.

[GommeInc]

The statement. So did the EU itself (a representative) say that 75% of laws and legislation come from it, like you said, or not? Because I'm tempted to listen to what parliament says, even more so since there's no backing for this 75% number people keep mentioning.

I can't find it either. It seems strange Farage has mentioned it and so have a few media places as a solid fact (BBC stated it somewhere that the EU even thinks this). It wouldn't surprise me a lot of laws are influenced by EU/European law but are not necessarily directives - so the number may have been made up to suggest that some decisions were EU law even when they're not. It goes back to what implementation really means - we usually just add the good bits and ignore the bits which are not relevant to us.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The statement. So did the EU itself (a representative) say that 75% of laws and legislation come from it, like you said, or not? Because I'm tempted to listen to what parliament says, even more so since there's no backing for this 75% number people keep mentioning.

Again, the House of Commons library cannot be taken as truth due to the fact that as Ryan and myself have pointed out - a lot of EU legislation isn't direct and is adopted within domestic law, in local law and in devolved law. MPs from both sides put it at around the 50% figure (see video of Frank Field Labour MP), Viviane Reding the Vice EU Commissioner puts it at 70% odd from my recollection, the former German President conducted a study which put it at 85% odd from which Ukip have reduced the figure to 75% taking into account Euro legislation and so on and so forth. Apparently David Cameron himself has said in the past that "almost half" of regulation law comes from the EU - and that's huge when you take into account the extent of the Single Market and what it affects when passing legislation.

But whether it's 5%, 10%, 50% or 75% that's not even the point. The point is the supremacy of EU civil-styled law over our parliamentary sovereignty and the replacement of our precious common law. I have to say that one of the best moments in this debate tonight was how Farage defended English Liberty and Common Law which is something that you never hear anybody speak of these days. Reminded me very much of Ron Paul and rather fitting considering it's the 800th birthday of the Magna Carta next year.

[The Don]

I can't find it either. It seems strange Farage has mentioned it and so have a few media places as a solid fact (BBC stated it somewhere that the EU even thinks this). It wouldn't surprise me a lot of laws are influenced by EU/European law but are not necessarily directives - so the number may have been made up to suggest that some decisions were EU law even when they're not. It goes back to what implementation really means - we usually just add the good bits and ignore the bits which are not relevant to us.

Yeh, I guess so. I'm sure it's more than 7% but I really do not believe it's as high as 75%. I've just been reading a paper off Parliaments website and it calculates that about just under 15% come from the EU. Here's a link to it you'll have to open the pdf file. The numbers you'll want are on page 25 (21 officially by the numbers at the bottom of the page).

[GommeInc]

Yeh, I guess so. I'm sure it's more than 7% but I really do not believe it's as high as 75%. I've just been reading a paper off Parliaments website and it calculates that about just under 15% come from the EU. Here's a link to it you'll have to open the pdf file. The numbers you'll want are on page 25 (21 officially by the numbers at the bottom of the page).

http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/06/w...e-from-the-eu/
That sort of explains it. It depends what you consider as EU law as there are different types and nothing concrete. Pure EU law is probably 7%, but different contributing sources definitely raise this.

[Chippiewill]

Viviane Reding the Vice EU Commissioner puts it at 70% odd from my recollection

It was a false figure https://fullfact.org/europe/eu_make_...per_cent-29589

Edit: Full fact also mention elsewhere:
"Estimates reviewed by the House of Commons Library have put the proportion of UK law made in Brussels at between 7% and 50%, depending upon what we count as a law."