LIVE: Scottish Independence Referendum Results

[scottish]

But it was promised by all party leaders, so if they choose to ignore it **** will hit the fan and it won't just pass.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Even more importantly it wasn't listed as an option on the referendum. There's no way to prove a vote for no was a vote for devolution.

I don't believe promises of devolution swung it either, nor does Lord Ashcroft.

Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 21h

It does seem from my polling data that the promises made by the three Westminster leaders were probably unnecessary to win the NO vote.

As an Englishman I agree with Tory and Labour backbenchers: block devolution to Scotland until the Barnett Formula is scrapped and Scottish MPs are barred from voting on English-only matters. Any constitutional moves to federalism too, I want a say on (referenda).

[Chippiewill]

I don't believe promises of devolution swung it either, nor does Lord Ashcroft.

Nor do I. It's pretty obvious at this point that the yougov poll was an outlier. We had polls the same day and the day after telling the same narrative as the weeks prior.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Great stuff from Sir Tam Dalyell (Labour MP from 1960s to 2005) on the constitutional mess that has been created. And he says exactly what I thought and still think, that the Scottish parliament should never have been created - and should be abolished - and that devolution should've been a process that devolved powers to local council wards rather than on a national level. In other words, repealing Heath's the 1972 Local Government Act which greatly centralised government. The move to devolution in the 1990s by Labour to protect their power base has literally destroyed the constitutional set up.

Why should England, a historically unitary state, be dragged into the mire of federalism because of Labour and Scotland? Unacceptable.

[Lewis]

god save scotland

i demand a revote

[Mark]

god save scotland

i demand a revote

If you can get 400,000 extra votes from this revote you want then by all means have it. If not, let's drop the issue of vote rigging and petulant moaning and campaign for change for Scotland...

[Lewis]

If you can get 400,000 extra votes from this revote you want then by all means have it. If not, let's drop the issue of vote rigging and petulant moaning and campaign for change for Scotland...

I've not claimed it's been rigged and I'm not really moaning. I just don't like the looks of what's already happening and I'm not looking forward for what's to come for Scotland after the no vote.

And by a revote, I meant another referendum in reasonable time that is practically an impossibility to happen!

Although I certainly believe that if we give it a few more years, more and more people equaling to that or more are going to wish they had voted for independence. I do hope very much I'm proven wrong over that obviously, though.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I've not claimed it's been rigged and I'm not really moaning. I just don't like the looks of what's already happening and I'm not looking forward for what's to come for Scotland after the no vote.

You mean the notion that Scottish MPs should have less of a say when it comes to English-only matters? You mean the questions over the Barnett Formula (subsidies TO Scotland) which English MPs are now questioning seeing as you demand devomax?

You all started this and now you've woken up the English lion, we were quite happy with one British parliament.

are going to wish they had voted for independence.

But you weren't voting for real independence.

- You wanted to retain the Pound Sterling, the currency of the United Kingdom.
- Salmond and the SNP wanted to join the EU, and even worse lose the few floppy opt-outs that Britain has.
- By joining the EU Scotland would have been legally compelled to join the Euro currency at some point or other.
- Salmond wanted to join NATO, with a 'defence-force' similar to the Republic of Ireland, meaning rUK would've de facto been your defence.

It all seems a bit of a fantasy to me.

[Mark]

I've not claimed it's been rigged and I'm not really moaning. I just don't like the looks of what's already happening and I'm not looking forward for what's to come for Scotland after the no vote.

And by a revote, I meant another referendum in reasonable time that is practically an impossibility to happen!

Although I certainly believe that if we give it a few more years, more and more people equaling to that or more are going to wish they had voted for independence. I do hope very much I'm proven wrong over that obviously, though.

I think if they don't deliver what Scotland needs and wants then I'll be bitterly disappointed and it could actually sway my vote, if there's a future referendum. My view is that they have to deliver what they promised, especially now that Wales and N.Ireland have piped up and demanded what we have.
At the end of the day it's early days, give it time. I totally agree that Scottish MPs shouldn't be voting on English-only issues. I also agree that England should get their own parliament. In terms of funding to Scotland, that should not change. The minute Scotland are massively disadvantaged by Westminster support for independence will soar.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I also agree that England should get their own parliament.

Hang on a second, the creation of a mickey mouse English parliament stuffed full of fourth rate politicians (with yet MORE elections) is a profound constitutional change. As is the creation of a federal Britain, something that runs opposite to the historical English unitary system of government. Who gave Scotland the right to decide all of this for England by a referedum?

As an Englishman, I don't want an English parliament or federalism. Where is my say in all of this?

In terms of funding to Scotland, that should not change. The minute Scotland are massively disadvantaged by Westminster support for independence will soar.

Oh so in other words, you want to have your cake and eat it.

If you want devomax (in which case, I have no idea why you even bothered to campaign to stay in the Union) then it would include fiscal devolution. Now can you tell me why the English taxpayer should continue to subsidise Scottish health, welfare and education when you want devomax? I certainly won't accept it, and nor will many English MPs - along with the creator of the Barnett Formula - who now realise that if Scotland wants devomax, it's time for the Barnett formula to go and for the West Lothian question to be answered.

Why should England subsidise you via Barnett as though you are a poorer region of England when you increasingly want nothing to do with us?