We panic about child abuse, then tell 13-year olds how to have sex

[scottish]

you teach kids alcohol and drugs are bad, and they're illegal (drugs completely, alcohol selling)

does this stop them? no.

they're going to do it regardless, so may as well teach them how to be safe about it.

[lawrawrrr]

PLUS, the only way to teach children abstinence is to tell them what sex is! If you brush over it a tiny bit just to say "be abstinent", more children will be curious and explore without guidance on what's safe or not. If you don't acknowledge the existence of sex, preaching ignorance, their natural instincts will take over and they won't even know what those instincts mean.

[RyRy]

Adults will abuse children regardless of whether they've been taught sexual education or not. Sex ed should be there so that children are aware of what's happening to them in these instances and gives them that understanding that it's wrong.

Instead it's learning how to put a condom on over a banana, which as great as that is in teaching kids to practice safe sex if they got into it with somebody of a similar age, it doesn't teach them what to do or where to go if they're being abused. You call FRANK if you're having trouble with drugs, but I bet a 13 year old couldn't tell me who they call if they're being sexually abused. In my opinion it's not the lesson that's the problem, it's that what they're taught doesn't make them wiser in situations of abuse.

[Empired]

Adults will abuse children regardless of whether they've been taught sexual education or not. Sex ed should be there so that children are aware of what's happening to them in these instances and gives them that understanding that it's wrong.

Instead it's learning how to put a condom on over a banana, which as great as that is in teaching kids to practice safe sex if they got into it with somebody of a similar age, it doesn't teach them what to do or where to go if they're being abused. You call FRANK if you're having trouble with drugs, but I bet a 13 year old couldn't tell me who they call if they're being sexually abused. In my opinion it's not the lesson that's the problem, it's that what they're taught doesn't make them wiser in situations of abuse.

To be fair we weren't taught anything about drugs at all. The only reason I know about FRANK is because of habbo lol.

And i agree. We had a lesson where we put condoms on bananas (all the girls were absolute pros whereas the boys wouldnt even unwrap the condom.. says a lot, eh) and got to mess around with these 'drunk glasses' things. In other lessons we watched what happens when you go to get checked for STDs and one boy had to go out and vomit at one point.
We were just told you can turn up 'at the hospital' to get yourself checked. I know for a fact this isn't true and if you turn up in outpatients asking them to examine you for chlamydia you will end up being very embarrassed indeed. Basically it's in a little building on a completely different site and tbh I should probably check if my school is still giving out false information about where to go.

[FlyingJesus]

Yeah oddly the condom on a banana thing has been around for decades and yet at my high school - an ALL BOYS school - we had that lesson only once ever and we had to loan prosthetic penii from the girl's school a couple of miles down the road, just weren't equipped well (LOLOLOLOL) in my day and nearly all "health ed" classes as they were called were about STDs rather than the mechanics of things. I don't know what it's like now but as far as I'm aware it isn't an instructional course in debauchery, just information about preventative and protective measures

[lawrawrrr]

we actually had a ***** on a stand to put condoms on (in sixth form, before that we just got to "feel them" - to this very day I've never put a condom on anything myself!!)

[FlyingJesus]

Yeah that's what we had to rob from the girl's school lmao so naturally we spent the entire time blowing up condoms and laughing at the rubber willy

ps Laura loves it bareback you heard it here first

[lawrawrrr]

Hey I didn't say that, just said I personally hadn't physically put one on! I keep getting confused between this thread and the other similar one but yknow to keep it on topic if I'd never had sex ed I wouldn't had known TO use birth control and std prevention

[GommeInc]

Isn't that like saying we panic about car safety but teach people how to drive? Sex is sex, driving is driving. Provided you make it safe you have nothing to worry about - and teaching children about sex and when to have it and who to talk to about it is making children safe about the dangers of sex including sex abuse.

Also, as a side note - isn't this a weird thing for you to say? You advocate not having sex out of principle yet you preach about it. Isn't that a tiny bit odd?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Oh so you did. Still, how do you propose we teach children to 'control' themselves?
@David; most schools don't teach children to believe in a certain religion (other than religious schools obviously) but teaches them about them. How are we deceiving children by saying 'some people believe this', 'some people read these books', 'some people worship one God, some people worship many'?

No, if sex was like a disease (out of your control and something you catch) then it wouldn't be controllable. Are you making the claim that sex isn't something that you can control and is purely a behaviour? It is a behaviour, therefore it is controllable: which is why children shouldn't be taught how to have sex, but not to have sex until they are 16 or even 18 in my opinion.

I find the idea that children are being taught how to have sex appalling. They're naive KIDS.

how does this stop adults abusing children though? If children know what sex is and what's OK and not then how would they know if an adult is acting inappropriately? They won't know what's normal.

Just because you teach kids about sex it doesn't mean they're going to go out and do it! The majority don't, it's a minority who do it, and if they're not taught how to do it safely there's a much bigger chance of spreading diseases as well as teen pregnancy.

My point is that the more sex 'education' we've taught children, the more sexualised they've become. Even if you agree with sex education in principle, you must admit it has been a failure.

It's a natural function to have sex, yeah people can suppress it (and some can live without it, ignoring those natural urges, I do also believe some people simply don't have those urges), but if your natural urges give way and these teens just do it, they might not know it is actually possible TO be safe, or unsafe.

Indeed it is a natural urge, and there's nothing wrong with people having sex: but there is something wrong when children aged 9 (or even younger) are being taught how to have sex when they're simply not capable of making such a huge decision. It amazes me that you cannot smoke until age 16, yet you're taught how to have SEX (potentially catch STDs, create a life, internal damage) by your teachers.

Why? Pre-puberty for sure, and I'm not claiming that it should be actively pushed for and encouraged for anyone no matter what their age/situation, but just saying "nope don't do it it's bad unless you're making a family" is ridiculous

Where have I said or claimed that?

I think you're having a hard time dividing adults (who can do whatever they like) and children.

Quite the opposite, a disease is an abnormal condition

Are sexual urges controllable? Yes.

So if you're going to teach children anything about sex (debatable itself) teach them to abstain.

Forcing your specific morality on people while pretending to be an advocate for personal freedoms again tut tut

You must be joking, right? I'm a libertarian, not an anarchist which you seem to confuse with every thread on civil liberty issues. Children (not talking about adults AT ALL here) should be protected.

you teach kids alcohol and drugs are bad, and they're illegal (drugs completely, alcohol selling)

does this stop them? no.

they're going to do it regardless, so may as well teach them how to be safe about it.

Our laws against illegal drugs are not enforced properly so that is a non-starter. British Police in 2014 are far too busy filling in piles of paperwork, driving around looking to fine motorists and investigating people who've caused 'offence' on Twitter.

PLUS, the only way to teach children abstinence is to tell them what sex is! If you brush over it a tiny bit just to say "be abstinent", more children will be curious and explore without guidance on what's safe or not. If you don't acknowledge the existence of sex, preaching ignorance, their natural instincts will take over and they won't even know what those instincts mean.

I haven't a problem with teaching sex among animals generally in science classes, but when it comes to sex between humans they should be taught alongside that teaching to abstain as they are too young for such activities - rather than being taught HOW to have sex which is my problem with it.

Isn't that like saying we panic about car safety but teach people how to drive? Sex is sex, driving is driving. Provided you make it safe you have nothing to worry about - and teaching children about sex and when to have it and who to talk to about it is making children safe about the dangers of sex including sex abuse.

Children shouldn't be having sex, or do you think they should be?

Also, as a side note - isn't this a weird thing for you to say? You advocate not having sex out of principle yet you preach about it. Isn't that a tiny bit odd?

I've no idea what my personal principled stance on gay sex has to do with this?