Tonight at 8 o'clock on BBC One - Challenger's Debate (last one of the campaign)

[Zelda]

I have zero idea who on earth they asked on those polls you have brought up tbh, but maybe mine and all the people i was speaking to during the debate's great dislike of farage clouded are judgement. didnt stop the cheering at sturgeon for pointing out farage's crap at least though. Didn't think miliband did well personally either, but that's probably more due to how annoying his voice problem is to listen to and how uncomfortable it is to look at him as he stares into your soul.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I have zero idea who on earth they asked on those polls you have brought up tbh, but maybe mine and all the people i was speaking to during the debate's great dislike of farage clouded are judgement. didnt stop the cheering at sturgeon for pointing out farage's crap at least though. Didn't think miliband did well personally either, but that's probably more due to how annoying his voice problem is to listen to and how uncomfortable it is to look at him as he stares into your soul.

It's a scientific poll by Survation.

I am certainly interested to know how you thought Sturgeon apparently debunked Farage though. Are you referring to when they were talking about the lack of houses and Sturgeon along with the others denied that net migration of 300,000 might have something to do with it given demand and supply?

It seemed to me that Sturgeon, Bennett Wood and sometimes Miliband were just stood there promising free stuff. My head nearly exploded when Nicola Sturgeon started going on about how we can't "afford" austerity. Well the clue is in the name love, austerity you have because we spent too much from 1997 onwards.

[Zelda]

It's a scientific poll by Survation.

I am certainly interested to know how you thought Sturgeon apparently debunked Farage though. Are you referring to when they were talking about the lack of houses and Sturgeon along with the others denied that net migration of 300,000 might have something to do with it given demand and supply?

It seemed to me that Sturgeon, Bennett Wood and sometimes Miliband were just stood there promising free stuff. My head nearly exploded when Nicola Sturgeon started going on about how we can't "afford" austerity. Well the clue is in the name love, austerity you have because we spent too much from 1997 onwards.

her comments on him being a one trick pony where he blames everything on immigration was what that comment was about. surprises me that the poll was properly representative given the audience but clearly it was, seems to just highlight the divide among different age groups' political views more really.

[-:Undertaker:-]

her comments on him being a one trick pony where he blames everything on immigration was what that comment was about.

Isn't that Nicola Sturgeon with her constant whinging about austerity when hardly any real cuts have even been made? It strikes me that if we're going to talk about housing shortages for example, the influx of an extra 300,000 people every year - all who need houses - is more or less the crux of the argument.

Am I right? I don't understand how anybody could even dispute this simple logic yet she stood there and did exactly that.

surprises me that the poll was properly representative given the audience but clearly it was, seems to just highlight the divide among different age groups' political views more really.

Indeed, well that has been remarked upon in some comments I have been reading on different news sites by the silence that Farage's comments recieved on housing/immigration by the audience yet the cheering for Sturgeon when she basically de facto said any new housing stock should go to newly arrived immigrants. The audience was maybe in tune with the views in the North London bubble, but outside of the capital as the polling showed on immigration and housing... it's a different picture and a different world.

[FlyingJesus]

I'm really disappointed that no-one in the Labour marketing team has decided to make a remix of A Milli done as "Ed Mili" with some bomb political rhymes laid on it I don't even like him but I'm tempted to make it maybe this is how I will earn my fortune

[Kardan]

Can anyone tell me how the audience was anti-UKIP? Not saying I'm disagreeing with it, I just want to know... Was it simply the fact that they clapped at stuff the others said and not what Farage said?

I thought Miliband did well, but so did Sturgeon. In fact, I quite like what Sturgeon has to say - until she mentions defence - then independence.

A part of me would like to see a UKIP majority government, immigration controlled completely and then see what UKIP would blame all the problems in the country on - I still feel like they're a one trick pony.

[The Don]

Can anyone tell me how the audience was anti-UKIP? Not saying I'm disagreeing with it, I just want to know... Was it simply the fact that they clapped at stuff the others said and not what Farage said?

I thought Miliband did well, but so did Sturgeon. In fact, I quite like what Sturgeon has to say - until she mentions defence - then independence.

A part of me would like to see a UKIP majority government, immigration controlled completely and then see what UKIP would blame all the problems in the country on - I still feel like they're a one trick pony.

They weren't. That's the way Farage UKIP is spinning it to delude their voter base into thinking they are actually in the majority.

Open question, does anyone else think that UKIP is being carried by Farage's charisma? I genuinely can't imagine a UKIP without him, and I definitely can't imagine UKIP being anywhere near as popular with Paul Nuttal in charge.

[GommeInc]

Farage was useless and a bit of an embarrassment. There are more issues than immigration and I think he came off as a one (bad) trick pony for bringing it up every time he was asked to talk. His manifesto was pretty decent yet he may as well set fire to it seeing as he poorly referred to it during the debates. As far as I saw last night the one policy they have is immigrants are to blame, yet there are well over 10-15 points most of which do not mention immigration but actual measures to protect the poorer involving tax.

Ed Milliband misheard or misread manifestos and questions or got side-tracked. Leanne Wood thinks people really know what austerity means so kept using it when no-one wants to hear that word. You're meant to speak to people, not politicians or economists. Natalie Bennett was okay but ended up just shutting Ed up and Nicola Sturgeon was like a Scottish Leanne Wood. Not really bringing anything to the table other than mud slinging.

All in all the debate seemed useless. I didn't learn anything other than the country needs to sort itself out and that includes every party knowing what they stand for and properly articulating it in every way they can when asked about their policies. Bull-crapping potential voters isn't going to work, and neither does crap slinging which is what we witnessed last night. Whoever wins the next election needs to do a huge tidy up of the country - from giving Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland the powers they so obviously need, to sorting out the mess with Westminster and the obvious lack of care for it by politicians and voters.

[-:Undertaker:-]

A part of me would like to see a UKIP majority government, immigration controlled completely and then see what UKIP would blame all the problems in the country on - I still feel like they're a one trick pony.

Nobody blames all the countries problems on immigration, but if you've got a discussion about a housing shortage and people like Nichola Sturgeon and Ed Miliband are proposing another 200,000 houses to be built each year when net migration is running at 300,000 a year does that add up to you? You do Mathematics do you not? Do you not see how it is illogical to have open borders and attempt to be able to claim to solve the shortage of housing which is caused by an extra 300,000 people coming in every year?

Am I right or wrong here? :S And the same applies to hospital places, school places and so on.

Can anyone tell me how the audience was anti-UKIP? Not saying I'm disagreeing with it, I just want to know... Was it simply the fact that they clapped at stuff the others said and not what Farage said?

Below.

They weren't. That's the way Farage UKIP is spinning it to delude their voter base into thinking they are actually in the majority.

The audience was not in tune with the general public at all, we know from opinion surveys that immigration is a top issue for the public at large with a huge majority wanting controls brought in. Just look a the British Social Attitudes Survey. Or look at the poll ratings that Farage recieved from Survation last night with 50%+ backing him on the issue: much higher than any share recieved on any issue by the other party leaders. Yet judging by the audience? A stony silence.

The television audience themselves agree.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/th...point-about-th

“It was a legitimate criticism,” she said of Farage’s outburst against the audience. “The crowd didn’t seem very balanced at all – it was so left-wing.”

“As is always the case, those who shout the loudest get heard. but there was a quiet group of us in there listening carefully to the arguments.

The debate was actually a bit of a farce – there were four left-wing leaders and Nigel Farage.

“I don’t usually like UKIP at all but he was the only one who stood out, and he made a completely fair point about the audience.”

I have read that apparently the audience was picked from the local area by ICM.

So if it's a North London audience it would have been completely out of touch with the country at large. As shown by comments on every site.

Open question, does anyone else think that UKIP is being carried by Farage's charisma? I genuinely can't imagine a UKIP without him, and I definitely can't imagine UKIP being anywhere near as popular with Paul Nuttal in charge

Work has been done into this and whilst he's obviously a factor, the party isn't a one man band as the media portrays. Professor Matthew Goodwin and Rob Ford who have written the book on this have stated that even if Ukip collapsed between warring factions tomorrow, another party with the same values (socially conservative, populist economically) would arise. Indeed, he's pointed out before how such a party has been a long time coming in British politics as experiences on the continent going back one or two decades have shown.

As someone from a working class family that voted Conservative for decades, I can tell you we're not going back. And I hear many others are the same.

[Kardan]

Nobody blames all the countries problems on immigration, but if you've got a discussion about a housing shortage and people like Nichola Sturgeon and Ed Miliband are proposing another 200,000 houses to be built each year when net migration is running at 300,000 a year does that add up to you? You do Mathematics do you not? Do you not see how it is illogical to have open borders and attempt to be able to claim to solve the shortage of housing which is caused by an extra 300,000 people coming in every year?

Am I right or wrong here? :S And the same applies to hospital places, school places and so on.



Below.



The audience was not in tune with the general public at all, we know from opinion surveys that immigration is a top issue for the public at large with a huge majority wanting controls brought in. Just look a the British Social Attitudes Survey. Or look at the poll ratings that Farage recieved from Survation last night with 50%+ backing him on the issue: much higher than any share recieved on any issue by the other party leaders. Yet judging by the audience? A stony silence.

The television audience themselves agree.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/th...point-about-th

I have read that apparently the audience was picked from the local area by ICM.

So if it's a North London audience it would have been completely out of touch with the country at large. As shown by comments on every site.



Work has been done into this and whilst he's obviously a factor, the party isn't a one man band as the media portrays. Professor Matthew Goodwin and Rob Ford who have written the book on this have stated that even if Ukip collapsed between warring factions tomorrow, another party with the same values (socially conservative, populist economically) would arise. Indeed, he's pointed out before how such a party has been a long time coming in British politics as experiences on the continent going back one or two decades have shown.

As someone from a working class family that voted Conservative for decades, I can tell you we're not going back. And I hear many others are the same.

Yes, immigration does contribute to 'crowding' of services such as NHS, housing - but it's not the sole problem.

The data from mid 2014 shows that in one year the population increased by 400,000 people - natural change accounted for 212,100 people, net migration accounted for 183,400 people.

So yes, you could say 200,000 houses a year might not work but it is worth remembering that we probably don't need 400,000 new houses for 400,000 people.

I think I'd be able to like Farage more if he just talked about what he would do after immigration. Let's say he stopped migration completely even though that's completely unlikely. He is still have a population change of over 200,000 each year - what is he going to do then? I just think he talks as if it's the centre of all problems, and in this case - it's not even half the problem.