JCB company owner and chief executive both back British exit from the EU

[AgnesIO]

a little too late, would have been a massive boost for the UKIPs election campaign.

Keep dreaming, sunshine.

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Well actually it does.

No, it doesn't. People make mistakes. Nobody could have foreseen the euro to be quite as toxic as it ended up becoming. And you certainly didn't (or were you a under ten year old genius??)

[-:Undertaker:-]

No I am not arguing that and I haven't said any of that here so don't try and shift the discussion like you always do. It is a fact that a wide variety of businesses and entrepreneurs have publicly said it would be bad to leave the EU and they are very much in the majority.

And the same vice versa.

Just the embarassing and awkward thing for you is that the big guys who support you got it 150% wrong on the last European question, where as the business leaders on my side in Business for Sterling won the fight and - thank god - prevented us from joining the Euro.

EU law has made it harder for monopolies to exist as of Article 101 and 102. Technically EU law has stopped larger conglomerates and monopolies from abusing their position politically and economically. If we left, larger organisations will have a stronger say politically, but economically they benefit from the lack of taxation, quotas, custom duties etc. So I am not sure why you think being in the EU gives these larger corporations an "easy lobbying" platform, when evidently they do not. Take Google or Amazon, both find it hard to speak and control governments because the EU wants to ensure they're on a tight leash! It's one area of EU law which works surprisingly well.

For the simple reason that having one parliament assembly and a Commission which proposes legislation (and isn't elected) is easier to lobby than 28 separate parliaments some of which may have pesky national voters who get in the way. The European Union may have rules against lobbying just as it has rules against overspending, government deficits and fraud: but that does not mean those rules are always followed. On a national level, if I feel my government has been influenced too heavily by a corporation then I can do something about it whereas on a EU level I cannot. I am sure some good judgements have come from the EU on competition, just as bad ones have come from the British government. The underlying reason why these large corporations support the European project though is simple: it's a matter of I will scratch your back if you scratch mine. It's about exercising power and the EU is great for them in regards to that: I have read countless examples which I will have to find again for the coming months of how certain companies have gone to the EU with suggestions for regulations over 'environmental' concerns which have been designed purely with the intention of blocking out any start-up rivals.

We are perfectly capable and should be making competition law ourselves. Like every other country outside of the EU does. Do we really believe the claims of Nissan, Toyota and Branson that they will leave the UK (as they claimed in 2000 over the Euro) if we left the EU? It is pure drivel.

No, it doesn't. People make mistakes. Nobody could have foreseen the euro to be quite as toxic as it ended up becoming. And you certainly didn't (or were you a under ten year old genius??)

If you make a mistake as big and disasterous as the Euro then you should have a bit of humility and shame.

And my side did predict it would be a complete disaster before you attempt to re-write history in true EU fashion, thank you very much.

You can read more quotes predicting the disaster of the Euro via http://openeurope.org.uk/intelligenc...ot-wrong-euro/ as well as quotes on the other side, including the BT Chairman/Business for Europe and others who got it totally and completely wrong as per usual.

The same people who are now warning us that the sky will fall in if we dare leave the EU.

[The Don]

And the same vice versa.

Just the embarassing and awkward thing for you is that the big guys who support you got it 150% wrong on the last European question, where as the business leaders on my side in Business for Sterling won the fight and - thank god - prevented us from joining the Euro.



For the simple reason that having one parliament assembly and a Commission which proposes legislation (and isn't elected) is easier to lobby than 28 separate parliaments some of which may have pesky national voters who get in the way. The European Union may have rules against lobbying just as it has rules against overspending, government deficits and fraud: but that does not mean those rules are always followed. On a national level, if I feel my government has been influenced too heavily by a corporation then I can do something about it whereas on a EU level I cannot. I am sure some good judgements have come from the EU on competition, just as bad ones have come from the British government. The underlying reason why these large corporations support the European project though is simple: it's a matter of I will scratch your back if you scratch mine. It's about exercising power and the EU is great for them in regards to that: I have read countless examples which I will have to find again for the coming months of how certain companies have gone to the EU with suggestions for regulations over 'environmental' concerns which have been designed purely with the intention of blocking out any start-up rivals.

We are perfectly capable and should be making competition law ourselves. Like every other country outside of the EU does. Do we really believe the claims of Nissan, Toyota and Branson that they will leave the UK (as they claimed in 2000 over the Euro) if we left the EU? It is pure drivel.



If you make a mistake as big and disasterous as the Euro then you should have a bit of humility and shame.

And my side did predict it would be a complete disaster before you attempt to re-write history in true EU fashion, thank you very much.

You're discredited since you were wrong about UKIP's performance at the General Elections so everything you're saying is automatically wrong #danlogic

[-:Undertaker:-]

You're discredited since you were wrong about UKIP's performance at the General Elections so everything you're saying is automatically wrong #danlogic

Why is Ukip brought into this? Ukip is just a part of the Eurosceptic and independence movement, it is not the movement. And for the record, I did not predict hundreds of seats for Ukip, indeed had you read my prediction around two weeks before the election I predicted a mere 3 seats. So don't make it up.

But back to the topic and off Ukip, can you tell me why you believe trade would cease or have trouble when the WTO forbids the EU from erecting tariffs?

[The Don]

Why is Ukip brought into this? Ukip is just a part of the Eurosceptic and independence movement, it is not the movement. And for the record, I did not predict hundreds of seats for Ukip, indeed had you read my prediction around two weeks before the election I predicted a mere 3 seats. So don't make it up.

But back to the topic and off Ukip, can you tell me why you believe trade would cease or have trouble when the WTO forbids the EU from erecting tariffs?

You predicted 3 seats and they got 1, everything you ever say from now on by your own stupid logic is incorrect.

[AgnesIO]

If you make a mistake as big and disasterous as the Euro then you should have a bit of humility and shame.

And my side did predict it would be a complete disaster before you attempt to re-write history in true EU fashion, thank you very much.

You can read more quotes predicting the disaster of the Euro via http://openeurope.org.uk/intelligenc...ot-wrong-euro/ as well as quotes on the other side, including the BT Chairman/Business for Europe and others who got it totally and completely wrong as per usual.

The same people who are now warning us that the sky will fall in if we dare leave the EU.

None of those quotes suggest it would be quite as big a disaster as it has become.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You predicted 3 seats and they got 1, everything you ever say from now on by your own stupid logic is incorrect.

Oh yes because me making a seat prediction on HabboxForum is just the same as predicting a utopian currency union covering 400m+ would be a disaster.

And back to the question, which you have yet to answer (again): why do you believe trade would cease or suffer if we left the EU given WTO tariff constraints?

None of those quotes suggest it would be quite as big a disaster as it has become.

Yes they do, especially the Friedman quote. It was 100% spot on. There's more via the document for you to read.

But the Euro was quite a disaster, you are right. So thank god we listened to my side, given it turned out even worse than imagined (your words).... right?

[The Don]

Oh yes because me making a seat prediction on HabboxForum is just the same as predicting a utopian currency union covering 400m+ would be a disaster.

And back to the question, which you have yet to answer (again): why do you believe trade would cease or suffer if we left the EU given WTO tariff constraints?

Well according to you our past mistakes mean we can't be right about anything else in the future so yes, logically, it is exactly the same.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Well according to you our past mistakes mean we can't be right about anything else in the future so yes, logically, it is exactly the same.

Righttttt, so if Stephen Hawking predicts rain tomorrow he's wrong when it comes to science? Clearly not. On the other hand, if you are actually logical, if a large corporation bosses and politicians tell us that not being a part of the EU project will lead to economic disaster and ruin... and the opposite turns out to be true, then you ought to actually pay attention - especially when they threatened to leave the country (an action of their own) and did not when they lost. Taking advice from your side on European integration matters/European economics is like taking financial advice from Bernie Madoff.

..and FOURTH TIME I ask you, why do you believe our trade will cease or suffer outside of the EU given WTO tariff rules and our global trade position?

[The Don]

Oh yes because me making a seat prediction on HabboxForum is just the same as predicting a utopian currency union covering 400m+ would be a disaster.

And back to the question, which you have yet to answer (again): why do you believe trade would cease or suffer if we left the EU given WTO tariff constraints?



Yes they do, especially the Friedman quote. It was 100% spot on. There's more via the document for you to read.

But the Euro was quite a disaster, you are right. So thank god we listened to my side, given it turned out even worse than imagined (your words).... right?

Notice how Friedman is dead and not arguing for a British exit so how exactly is he on your side for this?