EU forces elected British government to renege on Queen's Speech promise

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://order-order.com/2015/06/04/eu...Y9MYifViPsHeRQ

EU forces elected British government to renege on Queen's Speech promise

The government will be forced to back track on their Queen’s Speech promise not to raise VAT following a European decree. The decision by the Court of Justice of the European Union to ban the UK’s 5% rate of VAT on the supply and installation of energy-saving materials will force the government to raise VAT to the standard 20% rate. Unelected pen-pushers over-ruling a democratically elected government just weeks after an election.

The CJEU has form with these types of judgements, last year forcing Poland to apply the full rate of VAT to fire protection equipment. One for Dave to bring up with his new German friends.

The Court of Justice of the European Union has banned the UK from reducing the rate of VAT on the supply and installation of energy-saving materials. EU directives allow governments to reduce tax on the supply of energy-saving goods and services “as part of a social policy“.

The UK government believed that a tax break initiative intended to produce positive “social effects” would satisfy European regulations, but the CJEU ruled that pretty much the only way insulation can provide for “reasons of principally social interest” is if is installed in “social housing“.

The CJEU therefore today found in favour of the European Commission, who had brought infringement proceedings against the UK. So we have to tax an industry if it intends to prevent an old lady from freezing to death, but it’s fine to waive the tax if the service is provided as a handout. When will this madness end?

Our government can't control the borders to the EU which contains 400m+ people.
Our government can't cut VAT from 20% to 5%.
Our government has no control over agricultural & fisheries policy.
Our government has only limited control over energy policy.

Can somebody tell me why we put up with this when other countries outside of the EU do not?

Can a supporter of the EU on here please give an argument as to why our elected government shouldn't be able to implement basic policy changes?

Thoughts?

[GommeInc]

I'm not sure what to think of this. 20% on renewables seems counter-productive, or have I read that wrong?

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'm not sure what to think of this. 20% on renewables seems counter-productive, or have I read that wrong?

What's there to be unsure about?

Either you believe our laws should be made by unaccountable foreign courts/politicians or they shouldn't. Whether you agree with the British government on the policy or not is neither here or there, the fact that our parliament is being blocked from making the most basic of tax changes is just wrong.

[GommeInc]

What's there to be unsure about?

Either you believe our laws should be made by unaccountable foreign courts/politicians or they shouldn't.

My post was obviously directed at the issue rather than the politics. Isn't increasing VAT to 20% on renewables (solar) essentially sticking fingers up at the environment, something the EU ought to look at seeing as they live in a glorious white blanket of smog? The British Government wanting it at 5% seems like a selfless act of defiance to actually sort out our own energy problems while not filling the public coffers. Unless these installers and manufacturers are over-charging and profiteering from the low VAT.

[FlyingJesus]

Can a supporter of the EU on here please give an argument as to why our elected government shouldn't be able to implement basic policy changes?

I'm not really a supporter of the EU but it's because they're a higher authority, same as how a local councillor can't act in a way that defies what's set by the national government and so forth. Pretty obvious

[-:Undertaker:-]

@GommeInc;

Indeed, EU policy on wider energy policy makes no sense at all, nor do its policies on agriculture or fisheries.

That kind of bad law making is what you get when you have an unaccountable supranational organisation.

I'm not really a supporter of the EU but it's because they're a higher authority, same as how a local councillor can't act in a way that defies what's set by the national government and so forth. Pretty obvious

That's a legal argument, I am arguing politically and morally.

I would like to see the death penalty brought back tomorrow for example, yet if the EU were to implement it against the wishes of our parliament then I would regard that as illegit. We elect a government as our supreme law making body, or at least we did: and that's what is wrong with it all.

And that's the only debate to be had. Either one is for unaccountable judges and politicians making our laws for us, or they are not.

[FlyingJesus]

What you regard as illegitimate and what is actually illegitimate are two very different things. For those living in the real world, it's clear that we elect representatives in the European Parliament just like we do with the national one and our local councils - we therefore still do elect a supreme lawmaking body as you said

[GommeInc]

In theory and practice the European Council (elected heads of state from each member) and the EU Council (elected government officials of each member state from particular departments depending on area of discussion) are what drive EU policy and legislation. The Parliament then do the main body of work to see what to do with the direction put forward. So it's not entirely unelected. The only problem really is if it isn't going your way you just have to deal with it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

What you regard as illegitimate and what is actually illegitimate are two very different things. For those living in the real world, it's clear that we elect representatives in the European Parliament just like we do with the national one and our local councils - we therefore still do elect a supreme lawmaking body as you said

You can't have a democracy and thus legitimacy without a demos.

Europe does not have a demos.

[Chippiewill]

Not sure what the issue is here, any kind of free trade agreement would prevent this sort of stuff.