Transgenders-in-the-US-military policy reversed

[-:Undertaker:-]

What an incredibly weird thing to deduce from this thread.

Bottom line is we should all want to be more social progressive in our standpoints regardless of our disagreements. The issue stems with those afraid of (or quite frankly don't want to) change their views. Some people are so closed-minded about any change to society that we end up moving nowhere or end up having a very divided society which never ends well.

But the bottom line is that many of us do not want so-called 'social progressive' changes aka cultural marxism. As small-c conservatives, we're quite happy calling males men and females women. We're content with marriage being one man and one woman as it has been for hundreds of years. We're appalled that the killing of an unborn child is referred to as the right of a woman to do. We're disgusted when criminals are not punished for wrongdoing.

The huge divisions in society are coming from the Left who are literally using tumblr now as a guide on how to run society. From pulling down our statues and trashing our heritage and history to teaching young children about gay sex - the pull to the fringes is only coming from one side and it certainly isn't the side I am sitting on. We're not close-minded, we simply disagree.

[FlyingJesus]

It is closed minded when you disagree with something or want to force things to be a certain way "just because" or to avoid change in general

[-:Undertaker:-]

It is closed minded when you disagree with something or want to force things to be a certain way "just because" or to avoid change in general

Well thanks for clarifying that for me, luckily that doesn't apply to anything I have said.

[Joe]

I'm sorry it's just beyond me that conservatives would rather it be "their way" rather than allow others, who may have different values, to be happy and more free with their life.

It's just such a **** annoying thing to hear from you. It's a "my way or no way" and I genuinely can't stand it and stripped down it's such a bratty behaviour.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'm sorry it's just beyond me that conservatives would rather it be "their way" rather than allow others, who may have different values, to be happy and more free with their life.

But it's you lot who are the ones forcing everybody else to go along with your values.

A Christian baker taken to court for refusing to bake a cake. Hotel owners prosecuted for not wanting a gay couple sleep in the same room of their property. Forcing people to sign up to Equality & Diversity in jobs. Taking people to court for saying they believe homosexuality is immoral. Trying to get a Professor in Canada fired for refusing to call males by female pronouns. Teaching our children gay sex whether the parents want it taught or not.

You all go on about tolerance so much but what about tolerance for people with a different opinion?

[Joe]

But it's you lot who are the ones forcing everybody else to go along with your values.

A Christian baker taken to court for refusing to bake a cake. Hotel owners prosecuted for not wanting a gay couple sleep in the same room of their property. Forcing people to sign up to Equality & Diversity in jobs. Taking people to court for saying they believe homosexuality is immoral. Trying to get a Professor in Canada fired for refusing to call males by female pronouns. Teaching our children gay sex whether the parents want it taught or not.

You all go on about tolerance so much but what about tolerance for people with a different opinion?

I feel like you are mixing things up. I see being progressive as people dressing and being who they please, having sex with who they want and marrying who they want. I feel like a woman can abort her baby when she wants as long as it's safe for her. I, however, think there is a VERY LEFT LIBERAL side which is bringing down the progressive hopefuls as we're tarnished with the same brush. The baker is absolutely ridiculous as is the hotel as it's their business so their rules (but what is and what isn't discrimiation is for another day!). The gay sex in schools is a tricky one and its a grey area I'd definetly avoid.

But I do completely agree with the homosexuality to court one you mentioned. It's hate speech at the end of the day and it's very obvious we do not have freedom of speech in this country at all.

So, I partially agree with you but feel like you're tarnishing everyone with the same brush. I'm not part of the liberal left who think such extreme changes - I'm just a centre grounded young person who thinks you should be able to love and **** what you want!

edit: i'm pretty tired and cba to go correct where i've blatantly repeated myself and made terrible spag errors

[-:Undertaker:-]

No that's fair enough - if you respect my right to disagree along with my property rights then there's no reason why, despite having huge differences, people can't get along. It's like transgenderism - I think it's completely wrong, but that doesn't mean I would be nasty to a transgender. It's when people like me are forced to go along with it that it becomes an assault on my freedoms and rights.

Ultimately though most people aren't libertarians and many don't accept that line of thinking so my resolve now is to fight via the law just as the Left has on these issues. Whether it's stopping/repealing gay 'marriage' or this transgender in the military ban.

[Joe]

No that's fair enough - if you respect my right to disagree along with my property rights then there's no reason why, despite having huge differences, people can't get along. It's like transgenderism - I think it's completely wrong, but that doesn't mean I would be nasty to a transgender. It's when people like me are forced to go along with it that it becomes an assault on my freedoms and rights.

Ultimately though most people aren't libertarians and many don't accept that line of thinking so my resolve now is to fight via the law just as the Left has on these issues. Whether it's stopping/repealing gay 'marriage' or this transgender in the military ban.

I would challenge you, like I have, but will still accept that you have your view and I have mine. The issue is with those who cannot do the walking away bit after the challenge - that's what stops real progression from happening.

My only issue is the fact you will still go ahead and try and stop those from marrying who they want, or a transgender person serving in the military. That's what baffles me. It doesn't affect you so why would you fight it?

Surely there is bigger and better issues to sort out than stopping what still is a minority from being less divided in society?

[-:Undertaker:-]

I would challenge you, like I have, but will still accept that you have your view and I have mine. The issue is with those who cannot do the walking away bit after the challenge - that's what stops real progression from happening.

My only issue is the fact you will still go ahead and try and stop those from marrying who they want, or a transgender person serving in the military. That's what baffles me. It doesn't affect you so why would you fight it?

Surely there is bigger and better issues to sort out than stopping what still is a minority from being less divided in society?

I fight it because ultimately it does effect me and people like me with the examples I gave earlier.

It really hit home for me once when I was sitting in a guest lecture on free speech by an Oxford Professor, and halfway through a member of Humberside Police stood up and basically gave a talk on LGBT and how we ought to report any offensive speech. It was absolutely chilling to hear and that really spurs me on to fight these people all the way and never give in.

[Joe]

I would challenge you, like I have, but will still accept that you have your view and I have mine. The issue is with those who cannot do the walking away bit after the challenge - that's what stops real progression from happening.

My only issue is the fact you will still go ahead and try and stop those from marrying who they want, or a transgender person serving in the military. That's what baffles me. It doesn't affect you so why would you fight it?

Surely there is bigger and better issues to sort out than stopping what still is a minority from being less divided in society?

For me it stems down to being a fellow human. Surely you want someone who you share the heavy majority of your genes with - a cousin or whatever of mankind which we all really are - to have the same rights to be HAPPY as you. This isn't that they are shoving their gay in your face or wanting to be another gender but it's simply a happiness thing.

If honestly someone told me if I could make people happier by just letting same sex marriage happen without backlash then it'd be the simplest choice in the world.

I feel like your type of thinking is archaic which obviously fits the conservative label because essentially conservatism is "old ways the best way" but the old way saw hard rooted racism at the core of society and homosexuals demonised for their own happiness.

I completely respect the fact you do not agree with it and we share some of the same opinions on some of the ridiculous liberalistic items in the news and on reddit I see, but the difference is I will not fight something I don't agree with because it's not something effecting me. Something that directly targets my life and the way I live day to day will be fought with tooth and nail. But to say you'd sit there, disagree with allowing two people to be happy that are different to you and happily say it's something you'd like to "fight for"? You certainly have the wrong priorities.