Donald Trump & Flotus Test Positive for COVID-19

[FlyingJesus]

Even if you DO just look at the "very old and very sick", I'd personally say that many thousands of people dying before their time due to a single new complication in common is something to be concerned about.

On the actual topic of the thread, incredible how he magically recovered in a couple of days so that he could make more claims about what a superhuman creature he is and how he's now saved the world from China and Fake New Media

[-:Undertaker:-]

what a **** dumb comparison
first of all the mortality rate goes up when you start hitting ~40/50 years old, and if someone died of flu at that age I would be extremely surprised
secondly, we have much more mature mitigations and treatments against flu and pneumonia
thirdly, covid-19 has caused far more deaths than both you have listed this year so far
finally, you do not consider any long term complications that of the virus

you really just have the attitude of "**** you, got mine"

The virus isn't going anywhere. What's your solution, keep society permanently locked down?

My attitude is exactly what Lord Sumption is saying. Logic.

Even if you DO just look at the "very old and very sick", I'd personally say that many thousands of people dying before their time due to a single new complication in common is something to be concerned about.

On the actual topic of the thread, incredible how he magically recovered in a couple of days so that he could make more claims about what a superhuman creature he is and how he's now saved the world from China and Fake New Media

I'm not writing them off, but the reality must be acknowledged. My Grandad passed away in February this year from Pnuemonia, and although I was obviously upset and (sort of) surprised he was 89 years old, had an immune condition/dementia/had had strokes. I'm sure he could have gone on for a bit longer, but at the end of the day he was 89 and something has to give. My friend's grandmother died aged 89 from COVID this summer, and even he said had it not been COVID that got her it would have been some other flu/pnuemonia/virus/condition a month or two later because she was fast declining in health. Another friend had a 94-year old grandmother who died from COVID this summer too, but she was..... 94. At 94 a simple flu can take you out and does take many of them out every year but we don't lockdown society.

[FlyingJesus]

Still over 30,000 corona-related deaths in England and Wales for those under 85, you're massively underplaying this and still missing the point that this is something new and additional that is killing people as well as flu/pneumonia, not a replacement

[-:Undertaker:-]

Still over 30,000 corona-related deaths in England and Wales for those under 85, you're massively underplaying this and still missing the point that this is something new and additional that is killing people as well as flu/pneumonia, not a replacement

The average age in Britain is around 80, these sorts of figures really are not surprising.

30,000 deaths (how many are with other conditions?) out of a population of nearly 70 million Britons.

[FlyingJesus]

All are with other conditions, that's how corona works. Should probably know that before getting into debates about it

[-:Undertaker:-]

All are with other conditions, that's how corona works. Should probably know that before getting into debates about it

Indeed, and my point being that many of those wouldn't make it out of hospital/would be back in and have died a few weeks/months later anyway.

Very old, chronically ill with multiple conditions like my Grandad was. If pnuemonia hadn't of took him it would've been flu, coronavirus or something else.

[FlyingJesus]

1) Wow that is incredibly callous and amounts to saying we shouldn't bother caring for anyone because they'll die at some point anyway
2) Stop. Ignoring. The. Facts. Not everyone (by a loooooooooooooooong shot) who has died or severely suffered with corona is old and weak. Your granddad is not the entire world population, and referring only to him and his peers makes no sense here. You talk about "the reality" of things but then base your entire argument on anecdotal data rather than the science

[-:Undertaker:-]

1) Wow that is incredibly callous and amounts to saying we shouldn't bother caring for anyone because they'll die at some point anyway

Not at all. I care a lot about the elderly and as a family with two grandparents who've had/have dementia, had a lot of experience with the health/care system including homes which my Grandad spent his last two years in. The fact is, as the manageress there also said, most people in homes last two years on average - they're very sick and frail people who are nearing the end of their lives. If you're going to shut down society, you cannot do so on the basis of giving very old and very sick people a possible few more days/weeks/months of a very reduced quality of life which quite frankly is not worth living.

I would protect the care homes as best I could, but even then - given these people are in the final stage of life, is it really worth denying them contact with their loved ones so that they gain an extra few weeks/months of life where they do not see their family or go out? If my Grandad were still here now, I would deem the risk of seeing him worth it vs possibility of Coronavirus. As Lord Sumption said, life is only worth it if we're living.

2) Stop. Ignoring. The. Facts. Not everyone (by a loooooooooooooooong shot) who has died or severely suffered with corona is old and weak. Your granddad is not the entire world population, and referring only to him and his peers makes no sense here. You talk about "the reality" of things but then base your entire argument on anecdotal data rather than the science

No, but the vast majority of those dying from the virus are.

Normal relatively healthy people also die from the flu every year.

[FlyingJesus]

30,000 healthy young people do not die every year from flu. You're not even spouting bad opinions now, you're just being flat out wrong.

[-:Undertaker:-]

"Coronavirus cases in England have "increased rapidly", data shows, as ministers grapple with what to do next.

Estimates suggest between one-in-170 and one-in-240 people you meet in the street has the virus.

Both current cases, and the speed at which they are increasing, are much higher in the north of England than the national average."

Herd immunity is being achieved/has to be achieved while the politicians and scientists scratch their heads. It's the only way.

We never experienced the first wave properly because all a lockdown does is delay the inevitable, that the virus must burn itself out through the population.