Conservatives remain divided over EU

[Frodo13.]

he is just trying to save his sinking ship (labour party)

Clarke is a Tory

[jam666]

Clarke is a Tory

My fault, there was a recent labour backbencher who spoke out against Conservative policy who i must of got confused with.

[Chippiewill]

I for one am voting for UKIP asap so that we can get IE back into windows... anyway, I am going to convince as much as britain to demand Opera to be illegalised and IE back into Windows... (Stupid Opera..). Of course as soon as the Pirat Partiet gets control of the EU then I am voting back in to the EU so that we don't get moaned at for 'Piracy'

[alexxxxx]

I for one am voting for UKIP asap so that we can get IE back into windows... anyway, I am going to convince as much as britain to demand Opera to be illegalised and IE back into Windows... (Stupid Opera..). Of course as soon as the Pirat Partiet gets control of the EU then I am voting back in to the EU so that we don't get moaned at for 'Piracy'

IE not being included in windows sounds stupid, but really it isn't. PLUS with most computers IE will be installed because the manufacturer will jsut install it, along with all those other dodgy programmes. I think M$ shouldn't be able to prepackage IE or WMP because they are markets in themselves and therefore M$'s monopolistic powers means that they can now dominate other markets easily making it harder for others to enter in.

Conservatives, Labour and LibDems are all pro-EU because they think it's best for this country. Anyway the Irish will vote yes in the next referendum as there has been changes made for the Irish which they were concerned about. Did you see that the Irish voted for LESS eurosceptics this time? Probably cause they have come to realise that they do want it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

IE not being included in windows sounds stupid, but really it isn't. PLUS with most computers IE will be installed because the manufacturer will jsut install it, along with all those other dodgy programmes. I think M$ shouldn't be able to prepackage IE or WMP because they are markets in themselves and therefore M$'s monopolistic powers means that they can now dominate other markets easily making it harder for others to enter in.

Conservatives, Labour and LibDems are all pro-EU because they think it's best for this country. Anyway the Irish will vote yes in the next referendum as there has been changes made for the Irish which they were concerned about. Did you see that the Irish voted for LESS eurosceptics this time? Probably cause they have come to realise that they do want it.

They are pro-EU yet they don't reflect the will of the people, thus them all being just as bad as eachother. I tell you what would reflect the view of the people; a referendum that we were promised.

Are the Irish going to get another referendum if in a years time after they vote yes (presuming they do) if the opinion polls show they do not want the EU/Lisbon Treaty? - of course they will not. That goes to show how 'democratic' the EU is.

I tell you what, why aren't the EU giving all countrys across Europe the chance to vote on its existence, and secondly if they agree with it existing then they can then vote which powers and areas the EU can and cannot touch of national sovereign powers? - because they know the result will be numerous countrys leaving the EU.

Did you see the United Kingdom and the majority of Europe voted for more right-wing anti-EU candidates - because they don't want it, so how about giving the people of Europe the say whether or not they want to be ruled by a group of unelected eurocrats in Brussels? - because i'm pretty sure the result will come out just as it did before from three different nations; NO, NO, NO.

[LuketheDuke]

Which ratifications of the Lisbon Treaty are you against -:Undertaker:-?

Also referendums are not a cornerstone of democracy because a) if you vote a government in they have the ruling mandate from you to do whatever they like and b) they can ignore referenda if they wish too as they are not binding.

As well its been seen that not an awful lot of people care about such an issue, as the turnout in Ireland was particularly low.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Which ratifications of the Lisbon Treaty are you against -:Undertaker:-?

Also referendums are not a cornerstone of democracy because a) if you vote a government in they have the ruling mandate from you to do whatever they like and b) they can ignore referenda if they wish too as they are not binding.

As well its been seen that not an awful lot of people care about such an issue, as the turnout in Ireland was particularly low.

The whole of the treaty, the creation of the EU as a political body itself, the futher handover of powers from London to Brussels - the whole EU I am against, why do our MP's fight to get elected in our parliament only to hand over more powers to the European Union?

This government was voted in partly because of its promise to hold a referendum on the reform of the European Union, so if we are going to argue on thta ground then Labour should legally have to hold a referendum as they promised to us in 2005.

You hit the nail on the head there "ignore" - and thats exactly what is happening to the British people and the people of Europe. If the EU was so incredibly good and popular, why aren't they holding a referendum to let us show our 'support' for the EU? - because there is no support.

Turnouts in General Elections are also low, does that mean seeing as people seem to not care, we should scrap elections and declare a dictatorship? - no it doesn't.

The issue that always strikes me about the European Union topic is how arrogant the EU and its supporters itself appear to be, coming out with statements such as "the people don't know enough to make a decision" - so arrogant and spiteful, its no wonder people are so fed up with the political system of this country and do not bother to vote.

[LuketheDuke]

I think its dismissive to call EU supporters arrogent just because they believe in such an organisation. The EU accounts of 30% of the Worlds GDP, it has one of the best sustainability programs towards the environment which places accountability on all members and has given the continent a seperate judicial system that allows people an extra opportunity to seek redress in griviance.

If we to withdraw it would be a step back from such things, if we are to stay we can create a decent European community that will only continue to prosper over time. When the economy picks up again watch parties like UKIP fade back into obscurity as they complain about our spending into such commitments which seems their only strong argument.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I think its dismissive to call EU supporters arrogent just because they believe in such an organisation. The EU accounts of 30% of the Worlds GDP, it has one of the best sustainability programs towards the environment which places accountability on all members and has given the continent a seperate judicial system that allows people an extra opportunity to seek redress in griviance.

If we to withdraw it would be a step back from such things, if we are to stay we can create a decent European community that will only continue to prosper over time. When the economy picks up again watch parties like UKIP fade back into obscurity as they complain about our spending into such commitments which seems their only strong argument.

If you disagree with the proposal of a referendum then you are arrogant, simple as that. You know it will lose yet would prefer to see it dragged through despite the public not wanting it.

Why do we need to pay the EU £40 million a day along with signing away sovereign powers to unelected officals in Brussels so we can have an enviromental project? - In Liverpool one of our largest public parks is about to be built on by Liverpool Football Club, where are the EU now with their enviroment programs?

Our parliament is one of the oldest in the world and is democratically elected, why after all these years do we need an unelected body to make over 75% of our laws and we don't even want them to! - we would be perfectly capable of having our own enviroment scheme (and probably do already have many of them) at a small percentage of the price of what the EU costs.

The spending is only half of it, believe it or not many people place national soverignty over finance especially as we fought two world wars not to be governed by Europe, if you feel that way, then do you agree with the United Kingdom and Europe having a referendum on whether or not we even want to be in the European Union?

[ifuseekamy]

I think its dismissive to call EU supporters arrogent just because they believe in such an organisation. The EU accounts of 30% of the Worlds GDP, it has one of the best sustainability programs towards the environment which places accountability on all members and has given the continent a seperate judicial system that allows people an extra opportunity to seek redress in griviance.

If we to withdraw it would be a step back from such things, if we are to stay we can create a decent European community that will only continue to prosper over time. When the economy picks up again watch parties like UKIP fade back into obscurity as they complain about our spending into such commitments which seems their only strong argument.

Not being a part of a superstate that rules through totalitarian democracy is hardly a step back.